New Mineral Named After GIA’s John Koivula
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:09 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:39 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19858
Location: San Francisco
Rob Bates for JCK wrote:
The Gemological Institute of America (GIA) will spotlight its country of origin diamond reports in its consumer advertising this holiday.

The country of origin program, originally called “Mine to Market,” uses a scientific method to link a piece of polished to the rough that spawned it, in order to provide consumers with information about a diamond’s country of origin.

The reports will be featured as part of the GIA’s decade-old “Four C’s” consumer-facing advertising campaign. The new ads spotlight country of origin as a “fifth element” for consumers to look for, along with color, clarity, cut, and carat weight.

To tout the reports, GIA will boost its ad spend this holiday, with placements appearing in consumer publications including Vogue and Elle. Digital ads will target fine jewelry buyers in metro areas.
READ MORE


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:33 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:29 pm
Posts: 1017
Location: Paris
I don't believe they will manage this origin determination easily and trustably.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:07 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 632
Without any inside information, I can speculate that Diamond will be one of the easier, and reliable origin determinations.

Diamond has a relatively simple molecular structure. Trace elements are probably easily distinguishable down to very small amounts. In addition, reference rough is likely readily available from all the major producers. Origin of this reference rough will have an unusually high degree of confidence.

So, for a great many of the deposits, reliable analysis, and source determination will be possible. All other stones (mostly from non Kimberly process alluvial mining) can be labeled "Origin undetermined". So, any diamonds that came from a Kimberly process source, that followed a blockchain through to the retailer, will get an origin label on the GIA report. In these cases it will be confirmation rather than raw determination. This will be considered a premium value add in the market. Some stone will not get an origin, and will be considered generic.

Much more straight forward than and colored stone origin determination.


Last edited by 1bwana1 on Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:43 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19858
Location: San Francisco
1bwana1 wrote:
Without any inside information, I can speculate that Diamond will be one of the easier, and reliable origin determinations.
Much more straight forward than and colored stone origin determination.

I have to disagree with that premise, Steve.
The complexity of the chemistry of most colored stones is an asset in origin determination.
Trace amounts of elements associated with known geology of various sources, or lack thereof, can accurately point to probable origin.

Diamonds....not convinced.

Gübelin has been researching a blockchain approach to diamond provenance.

Rapaport wrote:
Gübelin Testing Nano-Tracking for Diamonds
Gübelin Gem Lab is studying how it can place microscopic labels on diamonds to track them through the supply chain.
The Swiss institute launched its Emerald Paternity Test in 2017, applying invisible nanoparticles to rough stones to enable industry members and consumers to trace the goods back to an exact mine. It’s currently only practical for emeralds, as their numerous fissures make it easier to attach the billions of tiny tags and keep them stuck, Gübelin managing director Daniel Nyfeler told Rapaport News Tuesday.

The current feasibility study, which is at an early stage, looks at whether Gübelin can overcome some of the challenges involved in rolling it out to diamonds, using stones supplied by an unnamed company.
READ MORE


In addition,

Rapaport wrote:
De Beers Opening Blockchain to Industry
De Beers has launched an online resource for sharing information and tools that will help members of the trade join its blockchain program.

The Tracr Community will provide participants with educational materials and standards for moving their business onto the Tracr Beta Platform, which will open to the entire industry over the summer.

“As industry adoption of Tracr grows, we will continue to raise awareness for the requirements of traceability, authenticity and provenance of diamonds,” Tracr CEO Jim Duffy said Friday. “Creating a community portal for the industry to interact and learn about Tracr is an important step to ensure that the Tracr platform is established with the entire industry in mind, whilst enhancing consumer trust.”
READ MORE


As far as the instrumentation the GIA is specifically using for this origin determination, I'm clueless.
As far as the reliability of these mystery methods, Isi and I are in agreement.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19858
Location: San Francisco
Sidebars with some clues as to what GIA may have up their sleeve:

How does Blockchain technology apply to Diamond?


Everledger is building up relationships with major certificate houses around the world, where they grade and certify each of the diamonds. Everledger creates a digital DNA for each diamond and writes all of the information into blockchain. The blockchain platform records the chronology of a diamond’s ownership and is customized to incorporate the relevant integrity markers, which are calculated from 40 data points related to each diamond alongside the four-Cs (which stand for Cut, Color, Clarity, and Carat-weight). Once such information has been uploaded into the blockchain, the record is tamper-free, it’s immutable and can therefore be trusted.

IBM Introduces New Authenticity Tool

"Diamond color and clarity grading could eventually be science and not an opinion"


IBM says the technology is a natural partner to blockchain technology, an immutable digital ledger that records transactions in a public or private peer-to-peer network. Interest in using blockchain to track physical goods is growing rapidly, and IBM’s Crypto Anchor Verifier can be used to capture the optical signature from an original, uncompromised item and subsequently record it on the blockchain, which can verify throughout the supply chain that the item hasn’t been tampered with.

The technology is initially being rolled out with the Gemological Institute of America (GIA) to help them evaluate and grade diamonds. GIA is recognized as the inventor of the 4Cs of diamond quality—Cut, Color, Clarity, and Carat Weight—and the International Diamond Grading System recognized globally as the standard for diamond quality.

GIA is currently testing the Verifier software for diamond grading by capturing and creating 3D model images of diamonds, analyzing their characteristics and predicting their clarity grade. AI models trained to predict a diamond’s grade have performed with accuracy levels (within one grade) of more than 90 percent in the developmental phase using 2D images. In the future, GIA will explore expanding access to this grading capability to retailers as part of their mission to protect consumers and ensure they trust in diamonds. The Verifier technology could be used on a cell phone to confirm that the grade of a diamond purchased is the same grade given by GIA, or to make sure the same diamond is returned to when sent to be cleaned. GIA also hopes to integrate this solution to the blockchain by creating and adding records on diamonds that ensure transparency and verifiability for the gems throughout their journey from manufacturer to consumer.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:48 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 632
From doing a little more research it seems GIA will be using a combination of blockchain tracking, and scientific verification to issue origin on a report. It looks like a marketing tool thing rather than a scientific advancement thing to me. The whole concept doesn't quite sit well in a science based research, evaluative, education institute is my first gut reaction.

First a diamond manufacturing company must submit diamonds in bags that have been sealed by the mine, along with documentation from the mine. (Weakness - Someone could presumably mix rough from various sources in at the mine).

GIA documents certain features (morphology, spectroscopy, and crystal growth structure) of the rough diamond and issues a serial number.

The manufacturer then cuts the diamond and returns the finished stone to GIA. GiA attempts to verify the diamond properties against what was collect in the rough, and if it gets a match will issue a report with origin.

If you just send in a cut, or rough, diamond GIA has no way to determine origin.

To me this is just a selling tool. Not gemology.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:10 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19858
Location: San Francisco
Excellent post, Steve!
I am in total agreement.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:11 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:29 pm
Posts: 1017
Location: Paris
I don't really see the added value of such a selling tool. I don't know why customers will be interested in knowing that their G VS2 comes from South Africa or Bostwana or Russia or whatever. There is no aesthetic difference associated with diamond origin (except Golconda of course).
Has the Kimberley process really helped the diamond trade ? I am not sure. Many people don't think it is reliable ; many others just don't care. Why should it be different with origin determination ?
Maybe they should just focus on how to determine fastly and for sure CVD diamonds from naturals. THIS will be useful for consumers in the near future.
It is good to invent new processes and go forward in scientific quests ; but sometimes you could just ask too : hey, what is the point ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:54 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 632
I think we will all be amazed at the selling stories that develop from diamond origin reports.

Stories of horrific human rights violations from some sources.

Stories of big moral correctness from and benefits to the people of the country from other origins.

Destruction of the Earth and environment from some origins.

Green operations that have a smaller carbon footprint than even Lab Grown from others.

many, many more....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:37 am 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:29 pm
Posts: 1017
Location: Paris
Well, maybe ; but that would dismiss as un-ethical, un-human, un-green, un-whatever, a large quantity of diamonds from supposedly un-clean countries. Would these countries be interested in such a result ? And will the diamonds from these countries end up cheaper ? Well, if the price is splitted up into 2, I want one ! :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:58 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 632
Isi wrote:
Well, maybe ; but that would dismiss as un-ethical, un-human, un-green, un-whatever, a large quantity of diamonds from supposedly un-clean countries. Would these countries be interested in such a result ? And will the diamonds from these countries end up cheaper ? Well, if the price is splitted up into 2, I want one ! :D



I think all of these results you bring up are possible to varying degrees. The manufacturer who is taking advantage of this service is trying to differentiate his product from the rest of the market by giving his retailer customers an additional selling tool.

When you look at almost any promotional material from the Lab Grown Diamond segment, being a green, conflict free, and culturally ethical is featured. This may be a way to combat this marketing for mined diamonds.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:59 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19858
Location: San Francisco
1. Isn't that what the Kimberley Process was supposed to be doing?
Yawn.
I have never worked with a designer/manufacturer/ wholesaler or retailer who asked for, or was provided with KP documentation.....ever.

2. Until the methods for the GIA's origin determination are vetted by qualified independent sources (Caltech or specifically Dr. George Rossman) I'm not ready to swallow the Kool Aid.

Diamond sales have tanked rather dramatically in the last couple of years. Prices/ct. reflect that.
Desperate times, desperate measures.

I would like to know, specifically, who is behind this sudden brainstorm. Who funded the research?
Is this another ploy by the diamond industry to give diamonds the illusion of rarity?

A Dr. Hanneman quote seems appropriate, "Follow the money."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:16 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 3398
Location: North Carolina
A lot of jewelers are just middle men who don't really know much about gems. From what I've seen on facebook many seem to be panicked over things like lab grown diamonds. So perhaps this is meant to assuage some of their concerns and give them something to tell customers.
(I think a lot of these guys who are strictly middlemen are right to be concerned, but then again they aren't providing much value to customers so who cares).

_________________
https://www.etsy.com/shop/angryturtle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GIA to Advertise Country of Origin Diamond Reports
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:31 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 632
From what I see the diamond industry is spinning in the face of changing market demand, and the growth in Lab Grown.

I haven't looked yet, but is it still GIAs policy not to quality grade Lab Grown? Many other labs will do this. There are also a number of other report issuers who are gaining in market acceptance.

If so, this may be a collaboration between diamond producers, and GIA to maintain market share.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock