July 11-12:BILLINGS, MONTANA: Annual show; Billings Gem and Mineral Club; Sat. 10-5, Sun. 10-4; Free admission!
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:25 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Where to buy rough diamonds
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:21 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:55 am
Posts: 3
Hi,
I am unsure if this question is appropriate for this educational forum. But I wanted to ask how one can purchase rough diamonds in order to cut them. Preferably buying the rough diamonds in India would be better but South Africa is fine as I feel it might be cheaper. Does anyone know how to get hold of the rough diamonds? Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:15 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:15 pm
Posts: 746
Location: South Africa
Exercise extreme caution if you want to look at buying diamond in South Africa. Because of the ties to the local economy there are huge legal issues and permit considerations and it is very difficult for most to get past that.
Having rough diamonds in SA without all the relevant authority will land you in jail for some considerable time.
Also, rough diamond grading is a distinct area of expertise and small mistakes are very costly so you need to have qualified independent diamond graders to work with.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Where to buy rough diamonds
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:33 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 7505
Location: Rome, Italy
Hi Hope1 and welcome to the forum :D

hope1 wrote:
I wanted to ask how one can purchase rough diamonds in order to cut them.

Diamond Rough business is a very restricted and particular area.
are you in the diamond business? if the answer is Yes probably you already know all the troubles and difficulties connected. If the answer is no, well, i strongly suggest you to ERASE this idea from your mind. People who tried before you (and i know many of them personally) in the best case loose a BIG amount of money, regarding the worstest cases, well, i'm more than sure you don't wanna test african jails personally. Lukeness advices are wise, i heard stories from other parts of africa (congo) and, man, all people involved surely wouldn't do the same mistake again. my teacher at the diamond rough course was very prolific of tales, he spent almost his whole life in diamond prospecting and rough evaluating in africa.
hope this helps
ciao
alberto

_________________
GemmoRaman-532 - GemmoFTIR - GemmoSphere - EXA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:58 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 194
Location: Hi. or Mn.
Hi Hope1,

Perhaps this Company may have loose rough?

http://amerigems.org/default.aspx

Try to email or talk with James.

Kind regards,

John


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:10 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:01 am
Posts: 556
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hello Hope1,

Kenneth Glasser has been around forever and has always had top quality rough.
http://www.diamondrough.com/

Do you have a proper diamond cutting shop or are you just wanting to cut a few diamonds for grins?
When I had my diamond cutting machine I had no difficulty finding plenty of damaged stones to cut. Without a bruting lathe and a saw I didn't want to spend the time that rough would need.

Tony.

_________________
www.thegemdoctor.com
Beautiful British Columbia


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:24 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:55 am
Posts: 3
Hi guys,
Thanks for the replies. You guys made it pretty clear that buying in Africa is dangerous from a legal point of view. I was also aware of the difficulty in grading rough diamonds. But my main intention is not to deal in rough diamonds. I have some Indian friends who are from the region where diamond cutting is a big industry. And considering many cutters are now out of work I was thinking about trying my hand at the diamond cutting industry there and importing the cut diamonds to New York. So I am mainly interested in acquiring rough diamonds in India for cutting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:44 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 20234
Location: San Francisco
There is NO shortage of faceted diamonds in New York or anywhere else frankly.
Think about what you are saying.
"Several diamond cutters are out of work."
These are folks who already have experience and contacts: they are out of work!
What makes you think that someone with no experience and no contacts can break into the diamond market, bring goods to NY that would be more saleable than the goods that are already there, in the inventories of trusted dealers who have been in the business for generations.

I hate to rain on your parade but I don't think your idea is a good one.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:02 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 7505
Location: Rome, Italy
hi,
FYI 1.000.000 indian cutters lost their job in the first months of the year and the indian government has relelased a project to help them to became countrymen. :?
take a look to those little IDEX reports to have an idea of the business fall there.

http://www.idexonline.com/portal_FullNews.asp?id=31908

http://www.idexonline.com/portal_FullNews.asp?id=31915

ciao
alberto

_________________
GemmoRaman-532 - GemmoFTIR - GemmoSphere - EXA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:22 pm 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:55 am
Posts: 3
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
There is NO shortage of faceted diamonds in New York or anywhere else frankly.
Think about what you are saying.
"Several diamond cutters are out of work."
These are folks who already have experience and contacts: they are out of work!
What makes you think that someone with no experience and no contacts can break into the diamond market, bring goods to NY that would be more saleable than the goods that are already there, in the inventories of trusted dealers who have been in the business for generations.

I hate to rain on your parade but I don't think your idea is a good one.


Alright. I don't see any need to get agitated. I was only throwing an idea. I don't think the people who are out of work have contacts. In fact they do not have access to western markets where diamonds are sold. Second, I understand demand is low at the moment but I don't mind holding on to them for some time till the economy rebounds. Lastly I am assuming to get the diamonds cut for a low price and sell it to whoever will buy. I wasn't thinking anything big - just something personal - on a small scale.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:06 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:15 pm
Posts: 1795
Location: canada
hi hope1:

How to say this without offending? ... Here in Canada our diamond mines are producing enough world class diamonds to satisfy the world demand 3 times over and we have more new mines coming on line. Russia and Be Boers are both stock piling diamonds to keep the price up.

Site holders are offered "mixed packages" (that means that the ratio of dogs to winners is very close in a package) They will not sell you the winners even in a good market ... buy lots of purina dog chow because you will need to feed what you will be able to buy.

Locally excellent cut goods are selling for what the "promise stone rings: used to sell for. Now don't get me wrong maybe you have lots of money to spend .. but please remember on thing

"When a man with experience meets one with money .. the one with experience gets the money and the one with money gets some much needed experience"

Anyway good luck if you go ahead with your idea

_________________
A Chinese proverb says "Gold is valuable, Jade is Priceless."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:27 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 2049
Location: Sweden
During the first half of the 90's I worked as a professional diamond cutter
and have some knowledge on this matter.
Judging cut diamonds is difficult without any experience, judging rough diamonds is much harder. To buy rough diamonds, with the intention to make profit, without experience, contacts or knowledge about cutting, is like giving your money away...

As most people around here I advice against it.

If you on the contrary have got some cash and want to spend them to get into this, learn about it, find contacts, get some experience and have fun? Why not?

_________________
_____________
Conny Forsberg


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:03 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:44 am
Posts: 2051
Location: San Francisco
Ditto to what all said before, it's a very "rough" business! :) There are only a few cutters here in the states and most of what they do are repairs for chips etc..

You can get educated on rough diamonds.. Kenneth Glasser is an excellent source for the training($20k).. probably better than that school in florida. Diamonds are about as common as sand.. think about how many people you know who DON"T have a diamond or two.. can't say the same thing about quality colored stones.

As to south africa, I met the guy w/ the Nambian tsavorite mine at GJX. He told me that once a month, someone comes by and tries to sell him rough diamonds. He figures it's the Diamond Syndicate trying to bust him, so he gives them 10 minutes to get off the property or he'll call the cops. It's a real "mafia" type situation, if your not connected / in the family, your just a setup!

The only rough diamond I'd bring back from africa is the one I found playing around a streambed, and i'd fedex it back!

_________________
Custom Gemstone Cutting and various other activities!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: From Rough to Riches
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:58 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:18 pm
Posts: 449
Location: San Francisco, CA. 94104
I've done both and still have on record in SA a license to export diamond rough to myself in the states which I've done. Barba has heard the story and can confirm it since she's seen the piece of rough I have here. A little knowlege is an extreemly dangerous thing, you can kill yourself with it.
BE CAREFUL AND THINK HARD

_________________
Mervyn L. Cohn ASA
Senior Appraiser
American Society of Appraisers
http://www.e-praise.com
home to eCS (e-praise CUT SCORE)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:44 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:18 pm
Posts: 449
Location: San Francisco, CA. 94104
hope1 wrote:
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
There is NO shortage of faceted diamonds in New York or anywhere else frankly.
Think about what you are saying.
"Several diamond cutters are out of work."
These are folks who already have experience and contacts: they are out of work!
What makes you think that someone with no experience and no contacts can break into the diamond market, bring goods to NY that would be more saleable than the goods that are already there, in the inventories of trusted dealers who have been in the business for generations.

I hate to rain on your parade but I don't think your idea is a good one.


Alright. I don't see any need to get agitated. I was only throwing an idea. I don't think the people who are out of work have contacts. In fact they do not have access to western markets where diamonds are sold. Second, I understand demand is low at the moment but I don't mind holding on to them for some time till the economy rebounds. Lastly I am assuming to get the diamonds cut for a low price and sell it to whoever will buy. I wasn't thinking anything big - just something personal - on a small scale.



Here is the name of a Diamond Dealer in New York who gives rough diamonds as sales incentives; maybe you should get in touch with him? Tell him Merv sent you. www.diamondregistry.com (Mr. Joseph Schlussel)

_________________
Mervyn L. Cohn ASA
Senior Appraiser
American Society of Appraisers
http://www.e-praise.com
home to eCS (e-praise CUT SCORE)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:02 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:32 am
Posts: 1720
Location: Suwanee, GA US
I use this expression often, and I just saw it in essense...

"You can buy those" (a person in "chain making" class told use that we should make our chains in wire II - I wiped it out and got a great laugh.)

As a faceter, my reply is "Where is the sport in that."

There is also an ebay dealer too, but I suspect he sells and marks up for the novelty. I have never done business with them, but they are seller qualitygemsantwerp.

Note that diamond faceting machines are different from everything else in speed and design. And diamonds need special diamonds to cut them.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock