January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:31 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:09 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 391
Location: Dolan Springs, Arizona
It is a waist of time to curse the jeweler. One of the fundamental rules of faceting economics is: he or she who has the buyer rules. Since this is usually the jeweler who has a source for cheap stones in foreign cutting houses , we cutters are stuck with what the jeweler is willing to pay. In defense of Jewelers, they are the ones who have invested in the store and advertising and inventory and employees to attract the buyer. Our primary benefit to offer to Jewelers is immediate service and sparkle. We can cut for "bling" not just color or weight, and produce the stone or stones within days not weeks or never.
Since sparkle sells better than non-sparkle the key to better prices from the jeweler is to show the jeweler that his customers want sparkle. This may mean offering consignments or even selling introductory stones at a loss, but working with the jeweler, not cursing him, is the key to success.
However, no time should be spent on those Jewelers who are belligerently ignorant.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:36 am 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I have met both types of jewelers. Yes, some do have an awful lot tied up there, and yes, they are our good's public exposure. The ones worth talking to have a resident goldworker and setter.
I love the phrase "belligerently ignorant".
I encountered one years ago who told me "It is legal to sell blue topaz as aquamarine, because there's no difference".
While walking out, I said, "Should you visit a brothel, I hope they furnish you with a goat. I doubt you'd notice that difference either."

I used to work with several local ones, but in the last few years, some have failed, including the goat fancier, and the rest I just do repairs and recuts for.
Business gets in the way, just as it did with the Real Job.

One idea that excited one of them was for me to cut in the store for a couple of hours once in a while as a curiosity magnet. "See our gemcutter work!"
( SEE THE FREAK! FIVE CENTS") - Whatever works..
It still could happen. I don't get out much, and it could be good therapy.

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:20 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:10 pm
Posts: 2117
Location: Maryland
Maybe better than cutting stones, is just flipping them!

I saw yesterday on a popular consumer forum, someone was showing a chyrsoberyl she bought for around $225 from a website store. Quickly another alert member posted the eBay listing for the same stone recently purchased for just $25. That's a fast $200 for not doing much other than browsing eBay auctions.

_________________
Precison Gem
www.precisiongem.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:53 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:06 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Michigan
Precision Gem wrote:
It is possible to make money cutting and selling stones. But I think it works best if you keep the day time job too.

This is the the Precision Gem company car, bought completly by stones.

Image


I've paid for some of this car. :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:13 pm 
Offline
Active Member

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:57 am
Posts: 70
Location: New Zealand
Well said Gearloose can I borrow the goat Quote.

I know it sounds like whining but there is reality. All the jewellers who are the belligerent kind here are generally retail jewellers who have never handled an unfinished product.There staff have ltd gem knowledge which suits them.
Advertise as repair jewellers and only act as agents.
There are some dam fine jewellers with their own retail and make and repair themselves.
They are good to talk to though they may have better purchase price they do appreciate your work.
The good side is these jewellers set a bench price to work to. We price under them but not huge which gives us margin to play with.
Our answer has been to put out our shingle at our workshops, this is bringing in customers,we might not get as many, but better profit and satisfaction.

I am not making a lot I enjoy the challenge of trying to educate the great unwashed about gemstones otherwise i would go fishing.

I drive a 2nd hand Kia


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:02 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 657
I was looking for an edge on my competitors at the Sapphire sunday markets a few years ago, so took the good Old Facetron, and set it up on my stall.
Smart-ass comments, like "is that an old pedal model" came from the other stall- holders, but man, did it bring the customers in.
Next weekend, I had dopped 20 completed stones, and reluctantly agreed to sell them, :straight off the dop".
By now, there was a big crowd around my place, and much $$$$ came my way.
It was a big success, people loved seeing how the process worked, and felt they had something very special, when the gem came off the dop, and was cleaned in front of them.
I will be doing the same thing next year!
Barry.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:02 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
It makes the stone "Specially cut for them. They saw it cut."
When I was doing more retail, I used to photograph the major steps in cutting the stone. For engagements and anniversaries, the recipient was invited to come with the buyer so see the crown finished. They got a copy of the cutting sequence. It did create many referrals.
This discussion is making me miss that business. While working today I was reflecting on:
Quote:
It was demonstrated long ago that it is more profitable to sell pickaxes (BATT), shovels (Matrix), and blue jeans (Darkside) to miners rather than be a miner (faceter).

No, I believe in lifetime earnings my income from gemcutting has exceeded the income from the present business, all things taken into account. A solitary gemcuttter did not have any of the burdens of this business.

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:46 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
This thread gives me an opportunity to take care of some unfinished business that has been simmering for years.
Some people so far, have touched on it. We really try our best to encourage people to get into faceting. There are so many challenges and rewards, some monetary and many not.

Perhaps nearly twenty years ago I put up that "Build you own machine" page. It is so outdated I will be finally taking it down, but depending on skill level, some people did successfully build machines from it.

This is going to be hard-ass and nasty. Apologies in advance, but this is long overdue.

In the course of this website, and in some threads on here, I have seen a repeating tragedy play out.

Someone is in desperate straits, and decides they want to get into a skilled field making things for a luxury market.

The discussions take a depressing turn, and as the story progresses..
" I cannot afford the equipment"
"I cannot afford the supplies"
"I have no money."
"Because I have no skills."
"And I am living on Public Assistance".

A realistic self-assessment needs to be developed.
No skills->No money-> Pick a field that demands both.
And expect it to be everyone else's problem.

All grownups learn that there are going to be some things they cannot learn, do, own, or get. They may accept it grudgingly, but it's reality.
I hope people realize I am sarcastically joking about the things I wanted and didn't get, but there is a portrayal of futile self-pity in it.
If someone can't do it, then they shouldn't, if they are not equipped to try.
< /rant>

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:09 pm 
Offline
Active Member

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:57 am
Posts: 70
Location: New Zealand
Barry good point of difference. Unless you had a generator at the market I can understand why others thought you were pedal driven.
I have been ask to "preform" at our local Art in the garden this weekend by the art society, they seem to think i am an artist. I am looking forward to it, hope it leads to similar success as you.
I will look forward to seeing you at the Sapphire markets next year.
Gearloose you have years of wisdom and experience.
I don't see to as a rant just the reality.

Happy New Year and much success in the coming year no matter what your vocation to you all


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:25 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:10 pm
Posts: 2117
Location: Maryland
Years ago I brought my faceting machine into a jewelers showroom, and she had advertised I'd be there cutting. It did create a lot of interest and a few sales. Many people thought stones were cut by striking them strategically with a hammer and chisel.

Cutting as a sole profession, at least in the US, is a hard path to take. Luckily I have a very good full time day job as an engineer, so any profits from my cutting can either be directly reinvested into rough, or toys like the Z4.

_________________
Precison Gem
www.precisiongem.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:57 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 657
Ooh Gearloose, you are so "on the money", in so many ways.
I keep my mouth closed as much as I can, as I don't want to come over as the "grinch', but when people come onto the forum, hoping to get advice as to how to become "gem-cutters/builders of facetting plants/ gem buyers/gem dealers/international collectors etc, in 3 easy lessons, I have to admit, it is hard.
Then we have those who suddenly appear, and show gems that are supposedly "first efforts", ( you must be joking, right?)collect the applause of the collective, then quickly disappear.
Every digging season, people visit us, asking for "cheap sapphire rough", using the excuse that they have just started cutting, and need practice material/something for a competition/etc, etc.
Fish, just mutters under her breath, and goes back underground, where she meditates in the "no crap zone", leaving me to get rid of said "hopefuls".
I have been told on many occassions, that things will not go well for me if I ever bring any-one downstairs when said jackhammer meditation is taking place.
We named one such hopeful, "golden-gob", as he had a huge mouthfull of gold teeth.
After bullshitting me for an hour, he chose 300cts of the finest stones I was offering, and told me he would be pushing it to offer $2/ct.
There was a very, very long silence, and I expected an explosion from Fish, but she was so shocked, she just picked up her coffee cup, and wandered off.
In the next 2 hours, she burned out the new jackhammer, the poor little bugger, didn't stand a chance.
I actually had to turn off the power to the "downstairs, or she probably would have burned out the back-up one. We still crack up when she remembers the look of disbelief on my face!

I see you guys are deep in snow, so keep warm, and well.
Barry.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:26 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 894
Location: N.J.
Precision Gem wrote:
Although a hobby is supposed to be fun. Years ago I did wood working. When I first started out I bought a cheap table saw and a few other cheap tools. It was frustrating working with the cheap saw. Eventually I bought a much more expensive saw, and the enjoyment level went way up. Now I didn't sell anything I made, so it was all out of the pocket, and I can see the problem for the hobby cutter, but then it was a lot nicer working with decent tools. The finished products were better, and quicker too. Wood working is a bit like gem cutting. Eventually the cost of the wood starts to exceed to the tools if you work with more exotic woods.

Nicky, the key is that the gemstones are not the day job, but something extra. With only a day job, there would be no Z4 for me either.

Image Gene-don't feel too sorry for me- I didn't show the two new cars on the other side of the driveway. The old Corolla is my hundred mile a day workhorse getting me back and forth to Big Oil. Also had to travel to get a good deal- beautiful Pa.(Reedman). :D

_________________
Nick


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:40 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Nick, did the Teamsters have a word with you about sullying their reputation with the 300,000 Miler? :smt105

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:39 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 894
Location: N.J.
All the time Jon. They want to know why the headlights are glued in with clear silicone? Simple- so they don't fall out.

_________________
Nick


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Economics of Faceting
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:57 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:06 pm
Posts: 2267
Location: Chapel Hill, NC / Toronto, ON
Qld Barry wrote:
I was looking for an edge on my competitors at the Sapphire sunday markets a few years ago, so took the good Old Facetron, and set it up on my stall. Smart-ass comments, like "is that an old pedal model" came from the other stall- holders, but man, did it bring the customers in. Next weekend, I had dopped 20 completed stones, and reluctantly agreed to sell them, :straight off the dop". By now, there was a big crowd around my place, and much $$$$ came my way. It was a big success, people loved seeing how the process worked, and felt they had something very special, when the gem came off the dop, and was cleaned in front of them.
Barry, this is an AWESOME idea. I think I need to copy it :)

Qld Barry wrote:
Then we have those who suddenly appear, and show gems that are supposedly "first efforts", (you must be joking, right?) collect the applause of the collective, then quickly disappear.

After bullshitting me for an hour, he chose 300cts of the finest stones I was offering, and told me he would be pushing it to offer $2/ct.

Ahhhh, I love reading stories about stupid people :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock