Deceember 15-17: SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA: Wholesale and retail show; Gem Faire Inc, Scottish Rite Center; Fri. 12-6, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 10-5;
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:44 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Cut the largest stone possible from your high $$ rough?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:15 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:11 am
Posts: 43
Location: Northwest USA
I have a few pieces of large, eye clean emerald rough. Each large enough to cut a sizable stone or a number of smaller ones. Picture a 10 carat or larger single stone or multiple 3-4 carat stones.

I have no current market for any sized stones, but will eventually sell what I cut. Larger stones sell to a smaller audience, small stones sell to a larger audience and often sell faster.

Do you always cut the largest stone possible from your high dollar rough?

Let me know your thoughts.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Faceting 101 by Arya
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:28 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:06 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: Rochester, MN / Toronto, ON
If all else (clarity, colour, etc) is equal, then yes. You pay a premium for large rough, which goes right out the window if you end up cutting the rough into small pieces.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Faceting 101 by Arya
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:00 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:11 am
Posts: 43
Location: Northwest USA
Faceting 101 by Arya wrote:
If all else (clarity, colour, etc) is equal, then yes. You pay a premium for large rough, which goes right out the window if you end up cutting the rough into small pieces.


Thanks Arya, you make a good argument in favor of the largest gem possible.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cut the largest stone possible from your high $$ rough?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:42 pm 
Offline
Active Member

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:04 am
Posts: 66
I knew this was true, but wanted to run a couple of numbers for personal entertainment.

Using actual rough pricing from a dealer website, for Amethyst (Emerald would be even more extreme)... The price per carat obviously rises as the rough increases in size (roughly price per carat ~ size/10+1.50).

So even with Amethyst, a relatively large piece of rough (say 27 carats) costs about 5x a piece of rough of 1/3 the size. So in your example, you would much better off cutting a large stone from rough than 3 small stones - the one large strong being worth 1.75x the total value of 3 smaller stones.

That's all for Amethyst - large eye clean emerald rough is far more rare than large Amethyst and the (per carat) multipliers would be that much more extreme.

If I use finished Tsavorite Garnet prices from GemVal (not rough pricing, and I don't have access to Emerald pricing), after a bit of interpolating a 9 carat is worth 2.5x the total value of three 3 carat stones.

There's a pretty substantial difference there - and if the plan is to (eventually) cut and sell to make a profit there a radical difference. Using GemVal (risky I think) the difference is thousands(+) of dollars :shock: .

[All that presumes natural stones, size doesn't impact synthetics like that.]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cut the largest stone possible from your high $$ rough?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:59 pm 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:56 pm
Posts: 8
Shape is a huge factor when buying rough. Even if the stone is small it may have a great shape to maximize yield, this is where you can make a few $$$. Larger (Clean) stones are rare! Do not waste these, they are to hard to come by at a good price. Again, shape is everything. Large stones with a bad shape or area's you need to saw clean should not be at a premium price. you cannot sell a client the rough weight of the stone , only the final product. So if you buy a 50.ct rough, but your yield is only 5.ct clean, then you should be wary of paying the premium price for it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cut the largest stone possible from your high $$ rough?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:14 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:32 am
Posts: 1696
Location: Suwanee, GA US
Watch this



and this


_________________
George Ellis
www.faceting.biz


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cut the largest stone possible from your high $$ rough?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:20 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:08 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Bangkok
BUT.. How much more is a perfectly/interestingly cut but smaller emerald worth than bigger emerald with a worse cut. I was looking at a huge parcel of Afghani emeralds the other day he had a few pieces that were already cut and they looked terrible. Totally windowed, etc. The rough was really nice, vibrant color and shocking clean for emerald. I was dreaming of doing a beautiful cut with no window, making a small stone but something you hardly ever see.

Can we figure out how much a thai cut, windowed 8ct emerald is vs a
4ct (let's say you lose half to get the perfect cut) cut with great light return, color, lots of sparkles....

???

_________________
AJP, DG, working on GG + AG...
Faceting + Gemology Teacher at AIGS Bangkok
Gemology + Travel Writing + Photos -> http://www.justinkprim.com
The views expressed here are the author's opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of his employer.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cut the largest stone possible from your high $$ rough?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:00 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 2621
Location: North Carolina
The question here was not a size vs quality balance, but cutting one large stone vs multiple smaller but easier to sell stones. The balance between retaining weight vs best appearance on a single stone is fairly different. Generally I'm in favor of cutting for the best stone rather than the heaviest but the market may or may not reward that.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cut the largest stone possible from your high $$ rough?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:03 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:32 am
Posts: 1696
Location: Suwanee, GA US
With emeralds, any of the sides are already close to what you want the pavilion at. You orient them for color in the culet and many have a stronger side. Then you maximize your return on the crown. Covered in the videos. And just because the youtube icon picks up Jampeg, don't assume that it what it is about. When you are cutting something at $4k per caret, every touch to a lap is money out the drain.

_________________
George Ellis
www.faceting.biz


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock