January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:15 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:12 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:59 pm
Posts: 12
I am using a duel zone ba5t and zinc+ lap from gearloose and ive been noticing these strange clusters of material pop up. I think they are the PCD diamond stick residue but im not sure since im new to using this lap. see attached for a photo. Any help would be nice since I dont want to be damaging my lap.

Mod edit: removed original picture because it was way over 600px wide, replaced with resized one, click image below for fullsize view.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:52 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
You didn't state which in band where this feature occurred and how many you observed.

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:12 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:59 pm
Posts: 12
it seems to be coming from the inner (100k PCD stick) which on that lap is Ba5t. It seems to show up in clumps like the one you see on the towel. The stone im trying to polish is corundum


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:42 am 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
Lucinator wrote:
it seems to be coming from the inner (100k PCD stick) which on that lap is Ba5t. It seems to show up in clumps like the one you see on the towel. The stone im trying to polish is corundum

Could it be some of the BA5T alloy that is breaking off and agglomerating as you polish?

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:30 am 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 1542
I have seen this myself when I had a BAT lap that had some differences in hardness in the lap. It seems that the alloys were not well mixed when the lap was cast. The difference in hardness caused skipping and gouging when polishing. I sent it back to Gearloose, he agreed with the problem and promptly replaced it. Great service as always!

However, it is more likely that the lap is not properly charged and/or lubricated . Whenever you see metal sloughing off on a stone you are trying to polish, this is the usual cause. Of course, this assumes that the facet surface is properly aligned to be flat with the lap. A misaligned facet can gouge the lap creating metal shavings.

Steve


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:09 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:59 pm
Posts: 12
1bwana1 wrote:
I have seen this myself when I had a BAT lap that had some differences in hardness in the lap. It seems that the alloys were not well mixed when the lap was cast. The difference in hardness caused skipping and gouging when polishing. I sent it back to Gearloose, he agreed with the problem and promptly replaced it. Great service as always!

However, it is more likely that the lap is not properly charged and/or lubricated . Whenever you see metal sloughing off on a stone you are trying to polish, this is the usual cause. Of course, this assumes that the facet surface is properly aligned to be flat with the lap. A misaligned facet can gouge the lap creating metal shavings.

Steve


when you had the problem with the lap did you see gouging in the lap, since as far as i can tell I cant see any damage, just the material?

Also here is how I charged it, spread small amounts of PCD diamond stick on the inner part of the lap, used a old credit card to spread it out slightly and then used a corundum boule while having the lap rotate slowly (<100 rpm). If im doing it wrong plz let me know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:44 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
Lucinator wrote:
Also here is how I charged it, spread small amounts of PCD diamond stick on the inner part of the lap, used a old credit card to spread it out slightly and then used a corundum boule while having the lap rotate slowly (<100 rpm). If im doing it wrong plz let me know.


The PCD diamond is so small and the BA5T or BATT surface is soft enough to accept the diamond particles without pushing those particles in with a sapphire boule. Just spread the PCD compound on the lap surface and add oil or water. So, ditch the boule for polishing compound. It could most certainly shave off metal alloy which you then observe.

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:28 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:59 pm
Posts: 12
so should i send it back or keep using the lap?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:41 am 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
Lucinator wrote:
so should i send it back or keep using the lap?


Keep using. The issue seems to be your use of the sapphire boule.

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:11 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:59 pm
Posts: 12
tried using the lap like you said. I first wiped the lap clean, then applied PCD 100k diamond stick to the inner part of the lap. Unfortunately I again started to see the same silvery stuff again. Unless im doing something wrong that I'm not aware of then the lap must be defective in some way.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:42 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 1542
When I had the issue with my BATT Lap it was easy to see the hard spots. They we a slightly lighter color, and became high points in the lap. When the stone went from the hard spot to the normal hardness areas they would gouge. It was a visible difference in the lap.

How are you lubricating the lap when polishing?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:51 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 755
Location: South Africa
The BA5T inner band on my Redwing lap soon started shedding particles and developed some unevenness. Sending it back to Gearloose from South Africa was not an economic option so I had it reskimmed locally. It did the same thing again, and so I just use it the way it is, with no ill-effect. Whether this consistutes a defect I don't know. Cast metals often contain segregations and some compositional variation. (The copper outer band has some minor casting porosity, but that doesn't interfere with its performance either.)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:52 am 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
Lucinator wrote:
tried using the lap like you said. I first wiped the lap clean, then applied PCD 100k diamond stick to the inner part of the lap. Unfortunately I again started to see the same silvery stuff again. Unless im doing something wrong that I'm not aware of then the lap must be defective in some way.


Please post a close-up image of the lap surface. Please keep under 600 px.

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:53 am 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
The cast alloys here are deliberately directionally crystallized from the melt, and are "cored" metal. This is why when an edge is smashed in shipping that region is very hard and does not takes a charge well. It is also why people call them "Diamond sponges".

Image

What was the prepolish, the previous grit used?

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: possible issues with Gearloose Ba5t/zinc+ duel zone lap
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:26 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Quote:
The copper outer band has some minor casting porosity, but that doesn't interfere with its performance either.)


That's strange because all the copper laps are rolled 110 ETP copper.

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock