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 Post subject: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:29 am 
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Location: New York, New York
I've just received a used 5XL I purchased on ebay (described as "like new" condition).
There are some issues with the motor/drive that immediately became evident. I'm communicating with the seller directly to see if these can be easily resolved or whether I should just do a return and buy a brand new machine.

I'd greatly appreciate advice from anyone who's familiar with the 5XL and might know what's going on here... Disclaimer: these descriptions are probably bad. I'm neither mechanical nor an experienced faceter.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dfwmruk0SvlIcAMU2
- Upon turning it on for the first time, the machine emitted a screeching/squealing sound that got louder the higher the speed dial was turned - past 1 or 2.
I think the noise is from the rubber belt rubbing against the metal “casing” piece. When I remove the rubber belt and run the machine there is no screeching.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EiMOFUNEeDyeHMBI2
- I poked around at the underside of the machine and noticed the drive shaft (?) has some freedom of motion on the vertical axis. The seller has told me this is expected, which makes sense.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uDKeIJYVC8637uX82
- Shows wobbling of the plastic "pulley wheel" which powers the lap spindle and is powdered by the motor via the rubber belt.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5t913EA1JHKKCIny2
- Shows wobbling on the spindle axis itself?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2oyrFIMib4bkYrIb2
- Possibly unrelated issue - the platen seems to be level but the phenolic lap which was shipped on the machine has some wobble.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/pFd0wkbycGKmOux83
- Another video capturing the entire machine and the screeching sound (sorry it's a bit hard to hear).


Thanks for taking a look!


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Location: Pine City, NY and Dothan, AL
I'm not really qualified to diagnose your problems, but I can compare with my 5XL.

1. On my machine, there is considerable clearance between the belt and the "casing piece" you show. Is the belt loose enough so that wobble of the plastic pulley (see 3) would cause it to hit the metal plate?

2. I would agree that some vertical motion of the motor shaft is normal.

3. My machine has a slight wobble of the plastic pulley, but much less than yours.

4. The platen shaft looks slightly bent. That would also explain the excessive wobble of the pulley. Graves sells the "Main lap assembly complete with bearings and bearing housing" for $145, but I personally wouldn't want the job of installing and aligning it.

5. It's the lap. Try a master lap, if you have one. Phenolic laps are not expected to run true. Even a master lap may have some wobble, especially noticeable with the sensitivity of the 5XL's angle readout.

6. That almost sounds like the lap is scraping on the plastic shield. Is the machine vibrating enough to make it move?


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Posts: 134
I don't own a 5XL but after looking at your videos it looks like the plastic pulley is held on by a set screw, I'd loosen it and try to get it flat and retighten, it doesn't really look like the spindle has a problem to me in your video.

Using gentle pressure can you wobble the platen?

If you have a harbor freight near you you can get a dial indicator and base for about 30$ and can check the platen

https://www.harborfreight.com/multiposi ... -5645.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-tr ... r-623.html

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Location: New York, New York
Thanks both of you for the help!!

After investigating, I see the machine having two issues:
1. Arbor shaft is bent. This is propagating through to the extreme wobble in the pulley; I removed the pulley which was held on by a set screw and verified it was relatively level. However, the platen still seems to run true.
2. The motor seems "tired". Even without the belt it runs somewhat noisily with some grinding sounds.

At this point I'm trying to decide the best path forward with this machine. Should I attempt to send it in to Graves for reconditioning/arbor replacement? I've read scary things about their responsiveness and turnaround time. Or should I return it and buy a new one?


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:48 pm 
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I'd return it and buy a new one. If you fix the issues you have right now, it may cost you more than just buying a new one outright and you may have to worry about the other components failing down the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:15 pm 
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You might want to compare the price of just a new motor and base (along with what you paid for the machine), vs the price of a new machine.

The primary problem with getting a new machine from Graves, is a very poor record on delivery as reported here and elsewhere.

They might be faster at getting just the base to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:45 am 
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In my machines case the motor started to make a lot of loud sounds after about a year of use.

Trying my luck, I bought some new motor brushes from Graves.
I had to cut my old ones out, then went through a very interesting experience to get the motor with brushes re-seated back into the housing, but the new brushes completely fixed my issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:34 am 
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Location: New York, New York
Thank you all for the advice.

Does anyone know what's happening with the Graves Company website? I'm getting this failure message when I try to access any page (was working earlier this week because I looked up their contact information)

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access / on this server.


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:52 pm 
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I get the same. Graves has been doing some website updating. Looks like they broke something.


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:21 pm 
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I wonder if this means that the business operation of Graves has ended.

From the Florida Department of State, Division of Corporations website:



Florida Profit Corporation

VEE ENTERPRISES, INC.
Filing Information
Document Number
H55223
FEI/EIN Number
59-2527996
Date Filed
05/03/1985
State
FL
Status
INACTIVE
Last Event
ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT
Event Date Filed
09/22/2017

Event Effective Date
NONE
Principal Address
4100 N POWERLINE RD
SUITE I-5
Pompano Beach, FL 33073

Changed: 05/02/2016
Mailing Address
4100 N POWERLINE RD
SUITE I-5
Pompano Beach, FL 33073

Changed: 05/02/2016
Registered Agent Name & Address ERDO, PETER
4100 N POWERLINE RD
SUITE I-5
POMPANO BEACH, FL 33073

Name Changed: 03/06/1992

Address Changed: 05/02/2016
Officer/Director Detail Name & Address

Title P

ERDO, P.
20983 RAINDANCE LN
BOCA RATON, FL 33428

Title D

VANZO, DEBORAH
346 PRELL LANE
ORADELL, NJ 07649

Annual Reports
Report Year Filed Date
2014 04/23/2014
2015 02/19/2015
2016 05/02/2016

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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
Fictitious Name
GRAVES COMPANY
Filing Information
Registration Number G15000110531
Status ACTIVE
Filed Date 10/30/2015
Expiration Date 12/31/2020
Current Owners 1
County BROWARD
Total Pages 1
Events Filed NONE
FEI/EIN Number 59-2527996
Mailing Address
4100 N POWERLINE RD
SUITE I-5
POMPANO BEACH, FL 33073
Owner Information
VEE ENTERPRISES, INC.
4100 N POWERLINE RD SUITE I-5
POMPANO BEACH, FL 33073
FEI/EIN Number: 59-2527996
Document Number: H55223
Document Images
10/30/2015 -- REGISTRATION

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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Look:

VANZO, DEBORAH
346 PRELL LANE
ORADELL, NJ 07649

Amlap.com
American Lapidary Wholesalers Inc.
346 Prell Lane
Oradell, NJ 07649

VANZO, DEBORAH
346 PRELL LANE
ORADELL, NJ 07649

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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Posts: 1747
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Well, well, well, what's this?

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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:48 pm 
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thomas.adamas wrote:
I wonder if this means that the business operation of Graves has ended.


Hah, that was my first thought when I saw that error on their site... I really hope not since I just bought a used 5XL that will very likely require refurbishing :\

I emailed them 2 days ago and haven't received a reply, but I've heard that they can be very unresponsive to customers so that wasn't a surprise.


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 Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Location: Pine City, NY and Dothan, AL
Doesn't look good. I knew that Graves was an alias of Vee Enterprises, but I didn't know about the Amlap connection until Jon pointed it out.


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