Post subject: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:29 am
Established Member
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:44 pm Posts: 11 Location: New York, New York
I've just received a used 5XL I purchased on ebay (described as "like new" condition). There are some issues with the motor/drive that immediately became evident. I'm communicating with the seller directly to see if these can be easily resolved or whether I should just do a return and buy a brand new machine.
I'd greatly appreciate advice from anyone who's familiar with the 5XL and might know what's going on here... Disclaimer: these descriptions are probably bad. I'm neither mechanical nor an experienced faceter.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dfwmruk0SvlIcAMU2 - Upon turning it on for the first time, the machine emitted a screeching/squealing sound that got louder the higher the speed dial was turned - past 1 or 2. I think the noise is from the rubber belt rubbing against the metal “casing” piece. When I remove the rubber belt and run the machine there is no screeching.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EiMOFUNEeDyeHMBI2 - I poked around at the underside of the machine and noticed the drive shaft (?) has some freedom of motion on the vertical axis. The seller has told me this is expected, which makes sense.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2oyrFIMib4bkYrIb2 - Possibly unrelated issue - the platen seems to be level but the phenolic lap which was shipped on the machine has some wobble.
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:00 pm
Gold Member
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:01 pm Posts: 1902 Location: Pine City, NY and Dothan, AL
I'm not really qualified to diagnose your problems, but I can compare with my 5XL.
1. On my machine, there is considerable clearance between the belt and the "casing piece" you show. Is the belt loose enough so that wobble of the plastic pulley (see 3) would cause it to hit the metal plate?
2. I would agree that some vertical motion of the motor shaft is normal.
3. My machine has a slight wobble of the plastic pulley, but much less than yours.
4. The platen shaft looks slightly bent. That would also explain the excessive wobble of the pulley. Graves sells the "Main lap assembly complete with bearings and bearing housing" for $145, but I personally wouldn't want the job of installing and aligning it.
5. It's the lap. Try a master lap, if you have one. Phenolic laps are not expected to run true. Even a master lap may have some wobble, especially noticeable with the sensitivity of the 5XL's angle readout.
6. That almost sounds like the lap is scraping on the plastic shield. Is the machine vibrating enough to make it move?
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:45 pm
Valued Contributor
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:07 am Posts: 134
I don't own a 5XL but after looking at your videos it looks like the plastic pulley is held on by a set screw, I'd loosen it and try to get it flat and retighten, it doesn't really look like the spindle has a problem to me in your video.
Using gentle pressure can you wobble the platen?
If you have a harbor freight near you you can get a dial indicator and base for about 30$ and can check the platen
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:51 pm
Established Member
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:44 pm Posts: 11 Location: New York, New York
Thanks both of you for the help!!
After investigating, I see the machine having two issues: 1. Arbor shaft is bent. This is propagating through to the extreme wobble in the pulley; I removed the pulley which was held on by a set screw and verified it was relatively level. However, the platen still seems to run true. 2. The motor seems "tired". Even without the belt it runs somewhat noisily with some grinding sounds.
At this point I'm trying to decide the best path forward with this machine. Should I attempt to send it in to Graves for reconditioning/arbor replacement? I've read scary things about their responsiveness and turnaround time. Or should I return it and buy a new one?
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:48 pm
Active Member
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:23 am Posts: 99 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
I'd return it and buy a new one. If you fix the issues you have right now, it may cost you more than just buying a new one outright and you may have to worry about the other components failing down the line.
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:45 am
Valued Contributor
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:46 am Posts: 120 Location: Montana
In my machines case the motor started to make a lot of loud sounds after about a year of use.
Trying my luck, I bought some new motor brushes from Graves. I had to cut my old ones out, then went through a very interesting experience to get the motor with brushes re-seated back into the housing, but the new brushes completely fixed my issue.
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:34 am
Established Member
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:44 pm Posts: 11 Location: New York, New York
Thank you all for the advice.
Does anyone know what's happening with the Graves Company website? I'm getting this failure message when I try to access any page (was working earlier this week because I looked up their contact information)
Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server.
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:21 pm
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm Posts: 1747 Location: Florida, United States
I wonder if this means that the business operation of Graves has ended.
From the Florida Department of State, Division of Corporations website:
Florida Profit Corporation
VEE ENTERPRISES, INC. Filing Information Document Number H55223 FEI/EIN Number 59-2527996 Date Filed 05/03/1985 State FL Status INACTIVE Last Event ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT Event Date Filed 09/22/2017 Event Effective Date NONE Principal Address 4100 N POWERLINE RD SUITE I-5 Pompano Beach, FL 33073
Changed: 05/02/2016 Mailing Address 4100 N POWERLINE RD SUITE I-5 Pompano Beach, FL 33073
Changed: 05/02/2016 Registered Agent Name & Address ERDO, PETER 4100 N POWERLINE RD SUITE I-5 POMPANO BEACH, FL 33073
Name Changed: 03/06/1992
Address Changed: 05/02/2016 Officer/Director Detail Name & Address
Title P
ERDO, P. 20983 RAINDANCE LN BOCA RATON, FL 33428
Title D
VANZO, DEBORAH 346 PRELL LANE ORADELL, NJ 07649
Annual Reports Report Year Filed Date 2014 04/23/2014 2015 02/19/2015 2016 05/02/2016
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:35 pm
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm Posts: 1747 Location: Florida, United States
Fictitious Name GRAVES COMPANY Filing Information Registration Number G15000110531 Status ACTIVE Filed Date 10/30/2015 Expiration Date 12/31/2020 Current Owners 1 County BROWARD Total Pages 1 Events Filed NONE FEI/EIN Number 59-2527996 Mailing Address 4100 N POWERLINE RD SUITE I-5 POMPANO BEACH, FL 33073 Owner Information VEE ENTERPRISES, INC. 4100 N POWERLINE RD SUITE I-5 POMPANO BEACH, FL 33073 FEI/EIN Number: 59-2527996 Document Number: H55223 Document Images 10/30/2015 -- REGISTRATION
Post subject: Re: Help troubleshooting Graves Mark 5XL
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:48 pm
Established Member
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:44 pm Posts: 11 Location: New York, New York
thomas.adamas wrote:
I wonder if this means that the business operation of Graves has ended.
Hah, that was my first thought when I saw that error on their site... I really hope not since I just bought a used 5XL that will very likely require refurbishing :\
I emailed them 2 days ago and haven't received a reply, but I've heard that they can be very unresponsive to customers so that wasn't a surprise.
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