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 Post subject: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:27 pm 
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I have been re-reading old Arya 101 posts and I am intrigued by Arya's frequent recommendation for the following lap set:

"For the laps, I would highly recommend this combination of Gearloose products. This should let you cut, prepolish, and polish with the lowest learning curve. (I don't have any business affiliation with Gearloose - I just use his stuff):
BATTlap with 600 Diastik
BATTlap with 3,000 Diastik
Darkside with CeOx and AlOx BATTstik, and 60,000 Diastik"

He also adds in other posts master lap with 260 topper. This is recommended to preform/cut quartz especially.

About my goals:
I plan to follow the progression of cut quartz first, then beryl, then garnet. Amethyst is very popular in my local market. I also want to focus on cutting 1 gram or less size rough b/c I think that pushes my skills and most people use small stones in jewelry in my local market. I know that I'd like to compete in a competition. I expect to purchase my first American machine soon, likely a PolyMetric model.

About my experience to date:
Up until now, after the preform, I have used a worn out cheap Chinese 1200 topper to put on the facets. I liked the fact that it was slow especially on small stones. I felt like it gave me time recognizance when I was messing up. When I have used a cheap 600 topper in the past, it felt like I was grinding really fast.

Questions:
1) Arya has not said it but I am guessing one benefit to the above set is that BATTs last a long time. Is that the case? Are there other benefits to using hand charged BATTs?
2) How aggressive is the BATT with 600 Diastick for cutting? I like slow and easy and I am scared to go too fast especially on small stones.
3) Follow up to question two, when applying the 600 Diastick, can one just use less to cut slower?


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:04 am 
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inquisitive wrote:
I have been re-reading old Arya 101 posts and I am intrigued by Arya's frequent recommendation for the following lap set:

"For the laps, I would highly recommend this combination of Gearloose products. This should let you cut, prepolish, and polish with the lowest learning curve. (I don't have any business affiliation with Gearloose - I just use his stuff):
BATTlap with 600 Diastik
BATTlap with 3,000 Diastik
Darkside with CeOx and AlOx BATTstik, and 60,000 Diastik"

He also adds in other posts master lap with 260 topper. This is recommended to preform/cut quartz especially.

About my goals:
I plan to follow the progression of cut quartz first, then beryl, then garnet. Amethyst is very popular in my local market. I also want to focus on cutting 1 gram or less size rough b/c I think that pushes my skills and most people use small stones in jewelry in my local market. I know that I'd like to compete in a competition. I expect to purchase my first American machine soon, likely a PolyMetric model.

About my experience to date:
Up until now, after the preform, I have used a worn out cheap Chinese 1200 topper to put on the facets. I liked the fact that it was slow especially on small stones. I felt like it gave me time recognizance when I was messing up. When I have used a cheap 600 topper in the past, it felt like I was grinding really fast.

Questions:
1) Arya has not said it but I am guessing one benefit to the above set is that BATTs last a long time. Is that the case? Are there other benefits to using hand charged BATTs?

reasonable price
good finish


2) How aggressive is the BATT with 600 Diastick for cutting? I like slow and easy and I am scared to go too fast especially on small stones.


you can control how fast it cuts by slowind down the rotation

3) Follow up to question two, when applying the 600 Diastick, can one just use less to cut slower?


you cannot use less. just slow down the speed.
The BATT will suck up diamond at first. If you see metal building, add more diamond. After a while it will cut longer between charges.

I woyld switch form a dark sine (a good lap) to a dominatrix, I find it much more forgiving. You can use 3000 for prepolish and anything you need for polish. (ce for quartz, diamond for most)

You can also put down a coffee filter to protect the surface and flip it pver and you have a full batt lap.

I scribe a line close to the middle and charge the putside with 3000 for prepolish and 100,000 for polish. You will suck up a lot of diamond, but over time it saturates and you will use less. The BATT has been a polishing standard for a long time.

The diamatrix material in the dominatrix is very foregiving,

Get some of his cutting fluid as well. I use his fluid and a ultrasonic humidifier that I made a cover for to direct the mist to the lap and it works very well.

The diamatrix and batt just need a little moisture for polishing.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:47 pm 
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He also adds in other posts master lap with 260 topper. This is recommended to preform/cut quartz especially.
Preform, to cut down on time, but leave lots for the next grit.

1) Arya has not said it but I am guessing one benefit to the above set is that BATTs last a long time. Is that the case? Are there other benefits to using hand charged BATTs? reasonable price good finish
A BATT, if not abused, will probably last for your entire career. The price is indeed reasonable, and the finish will be as good as any charged lap.

2) How aggressive is the BATT with 600 Diastick for cutting? I like slow and easy and I am scared to go too fast especially on small stones.
I'd say it's about as aggressive as a 1200 steel. Obviously lap speed and hand pressure are a factor.

3) Follow up to question two, when applying the 600 Diastick, can one just use less to cut slower?
Not really, but you can use more to cut faster temporarily, if that makes any sense. An overloaded BATT will cut faster, but only for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:19 am 
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Heh it's funny to see how I've updated my practice through the years :)

Current easiest recommendations:
325 topper, or plated metal
600 sintered or BATT with 600 grit
Dominatrix with 3000 for prepolish and 60k or 100k for polish

That combination should give you a very easy learning curve and should work for all materials... Except quartz. Quartz responds much better to cerium oxide or zirconium oxide as a polishing material.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:45 am 
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Faceting 101 by Arya wrote:
Heh it's funny to see how I've updated my practice through the years :)

Current easiest recommendations:
325 topper, or plated metal
600 sintered or BATT with 600 grit
Dominatrix with 3000 for prepolish and 60k or 100k for polish

That combination should give you a very easy learning curve and should work for all materials... Except quartz. Quartz responds much better to cerium oxide or zirconium oxide as a polishing material.



both cerium oxide and zirconium oxide can be used on the diamatrix for polishing. It can also be used on the back side of the diamatrix on the batt.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:03 pm 
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Thank you Wilson, Arya, and Al for you replies.

Change the speed. That is an epiphany. The jamb peg I am using has only one speed. I had never considered the effects of different speeds.

Are the following statements correct:
1) A Dominatrix has three areas.
2) Area one is a BATT pre-polish area normally charged with 3000 grit. Area one is located on the outside of the top of the lap.
3) Area two is Diamatrix polish area. It is located on the inside of top of the lap. It is normally charged with 60,000 or 100,000.
4) Related to 3 above, "The DiaMatrix lap was designed to polish gem materials 8 Mohs
and harder."(Adamas website)
5) Area three is the backside of the lap. It is a BATT.

New questions:
1) Following Arya's new recommendation above, I would still need a Darkside with an oxide polish for quartz in addition to the new list, true?
2) What can the BATT back side of the Dominatrix be used for? (I assume there might be a contamination issues to consider).
3) If the Diamatrix area was originally designed for 8 mohs or harder, how does this setup work for beryl, garnet, and tourmaline?
4) @ Wilson What does this statement mean, "If you see metal building, add more diamond." I am confused by the "see metal building" part of the statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:50 pm 
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inquisitive wrote:
Thank you Wilson, Arya, and Al for you replies.

Change the speed. That is an epiphany. The jamb peg I am using has only one speed. I had never considered the effects of different speeds.

Are the following statements correct:
1) A Dominatrix has three areas.
2) Area one is a BATT pre-polish area normally charged with 3000 grit. Area one is located on the outside of the top of the lap.
3) Area two is Diamatrix polish area. It is located on the inside of top of the lap. It is normally charged with 60,000 or 100,000.
4) Related to 3 above, "The DiaMatrix lap was designed to polish gem materials 8 Mohs
and harder."(Adamas website)
5) Area three is the backside of the lap. It is a BATT.

New questions:
1) Following Arya's new recommendation above, I would still need a Darkside with an oxide polish for quartz in addition to the new list, true?
2) What can the BATT back side of the Dominatrix be used for? (I assume there might be a contamination issues to consider).
3) If the Diamatrix area was originally designed for 8 mohs or harder, how does this setup work for beryl, garnet, and tourmaline?
4) @ Wilson What does this statement mean, "If you see metal building, add more diamond." I am confused by the "see metal building" part of the statement.


I recommend only using the two zones on one side of the Dominatrix to reduce the chance of contamination. The back side was not intended as a polishing surface.
If you want to polish Quartz, Zirconia/water slurry on the Matrix or DiaMatrix would work.
I developed the DiaMatrix for use with polycrystalline diamond/water slurry, but some cutters also have used oxides on it. You can polish beryls, garnets and tourmalines with diamond slurry on the DiaMatrix.

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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 am 
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I started off with Arya's recommendations and I have to say the one thing I really dont like is the 600 diamond on the batt. I used to watch an entire movie while laying on my first tier of facets. That being said I wasn't doing any kind of preforming but I wouldn't recommend doing that for anyone. It's so incredibly slow.

I'm now using a 300 topper (or plated if you like) to do preforming and the preforming comes pretty close to the final shape and proportion and then switching to a 600 or 800 topper for putting on all the facets. Putting on all the facets for the brilliant top can take me maybe an hour now if I'm trying to get decently close meet points then I tighten it all up in the polish stage.

Otherwise I think the sequence is good. Also the 600 diamond on the batt means you end up going through a lot of 600 batt sticks which is pretty expensive compared to the cost of a topper or a sintered 600 which is what I use at home now.

Personally I don't like using the batt sticks anymore and have switched to 0-2 diamond powder for my polishing and then 0-1 for finer polishing. Mix the powder with a few drops of olive oil or whatever oil you prefer and spread it on. So easy and cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:19 am 
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Quote:
4) @ Wilson What does this statement mean, "If you see metal building, add more diamond." I am confused by the "see metal building" part of the statement.

If you see metal on the stone, the lap needs more charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:52 am 
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I use a 32 micron nominal sintered diamond wheel for roughing and a 12 micron nominal sintered diamond wheel for faceting. On hard stones or large facets, I will then use 3 micron nominal diamond on the BATT for a very fine prepolish, then go to an appropriate combination of polishing powder and lap for the final polish.

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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:11 pm 
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thomas.adamas wrote:
inquisitive wrote:
Thank you Wilson, Arya, and Al for you replies.

Change the speed. That is an epiphany. The jamb peg I am using has only one speed. I had never considered the effects of different speeds.

Are the following statements correct:
1) A Dominatrix has three areas.
2) Area one is a BATT pre-polish area normally charged with 3000 grit. Area one is located on the outside of the top of the lap.
3) Area two is Diamatrix polish area. It is located on the inside of top of the lap. It is normally charged with 60,000 or 100,000.
4) Related to 3 above, "The DiaMatrix lap was designed to polish gem materials 8 Mohs
and harder."(Adamas website)
5) Area three is the backside of the lap. It is a BATT.

New questions:
1) Following Arya's new recommendation above, I would still need a Darkside with an oxide polish for quartz in addition to the new list, true?
2) What can the BATT back side of the Dominatrix be used for? (I assume there might be a contamination issues to consider).
3) If the Diamatrix area was originally designed for 8 mohs or harder, how does this setup work for beryl, garnet, and tourmaline?
4) @ Wilson What does this statement mean, "If you see metal building, add more diamond." I am confused by the "see metal building" part of the statement.


I recommend only using the two zones on one side of the Dominatrix to reduce the chance of contamination. The back side was not intended as a polishing surface.
If you want to polish Quartz, Zirconia/water slurry on the Matrix or DiaMatrix would work.
I developed the DiaMatrix for use with polycrystalline diamond/water slurry, but some cutters also have used oxides on it. You can polish beryls, garnets and tourmalines with diamond slurry on the DiaMatrix.



if I were doing this to make money, or using expensive rough I would not recommend it. The risk of messing up the stone would be to high.


BUT
I do this as a hobby. I use inexpensive rough, and am on a tight budget.

For a long time I have used both side of all of my batt laps.
At Gearloose's recommendation I take o regular coffee filter and fold it into a pie shape and tear a small piece off of the cornet. This allows you to slip it over the spindle. It ends up being the same size as the lap. This prevents anything from the platen to embed itself on the lap.

I KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS.

If you do get anything embedded into the matting area, it can cause scratching and can be a challenge to correct.

But it can be done.

I use a new coffee filter each time.

I have also used regular paper.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:19 am 
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justinkprim wrote:
I started off with Arya's recommendations and I have to say the one thing I really dont like is the 600 diamond on the batt. I used to watch an entire movie while laying on my first tier of facets. That being said I wasn't doing any kind of preforming but I wouldn't recommend doing that for anyone. It's so incredibly slow.

I'm now using a 300 topper (or plated if you like) to do preforming and the preforming comes pretty close to the final shape and proportion and then switching to a 600 or 800 topper for putting on all the facets. Putting on all the facets for the brilliant top can take me maybe an hour now if I'm trying to get decently close meet points then I tighten it all up in the polish stage.

Otherwise I think the sequence is good. Also the 600 diamond on the batt means you end up going through a lot of 600 batt sticks which is pretty expensive compared to the cost of a topper or a sintered 600 which is what I use at home now.

You know, I've started doing more and more with my 325/360 depending on the material since trying to place initial facets with 600 was super slow, sometimes even a 260 for bigger harder stuff like lab sapphire or topaz. But it's also material-dependent - definitely can't get away with that on fluorite, apatite, or spodumenes so for those I really do mainly stick to the 600.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Any advantages for using batt for cutting stage,compared to a burnished copper for example?
that cost less than half.


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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:22 am 
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Faceting 101 by Arya wrote:
You know, I've started doing more and more with my 325/360 depending on the material since trying to place initial facets with 600 was super slow, sometimes even a 260 for bigger harder stuff like lab sapphire or topaz. But it's also material-dependent - definitely can't get away with that on fluorite, apatite, or spodumenes so for those I really do mainly stick to the 600.


That is not an issue so much with the grit size as it is with the diamond concentration and hardness of the metal alloy bond.

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 Post subject: Re: Arya's gearloose lap combination
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Dor wrote:
Any advantages for using batt for cutting stage,compared to a burnished copper for example?
that cost less than half.


I have yet to see an argument for using a charged cutting lap that would persude me to switch from a sintered or solid steel impreginagted cutting lap.

Arya, good to see you increasing your speed successfully with coarser laps.

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