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 Post subject: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:42 pm 
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for a while now ,I feel that something is wrong..
any way to fix that without sending the head to jarvi? :/

Image

* 1-2 mm difference,meaning is that I cannot even cut 2 facets at the opposite direction at the same angle.
that is a problem.

surface is leveled.

Image

the table adapter also seems ok.

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Image


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:22 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:05 pm 
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Dor,
I don't think that is a bent quill. I think you just need to do an alignment of the machine. That is a normal thing to do, and all of the needed adjustment points are easily accessible in the machine.

there are a number of techniques to do this. Some are shown in these videos.

https://facetingacademy.com/official-facetron-videos/


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Dor wrote:

Assuming the cheater is set to zero and angle is 45. Have you already verified the issue is not the lap? I have seen Facetron users check these setting by placing the table adapter.down on the base plate on the left side of control knobs to check the mass and quill alignments and virtually setting the cheater and angle gears based off the fact the mass is square to the base. Just food for thought.
Greg

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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:15 pm 
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1bwana1 wrote:
Dor,
I don't think that is a bent quill. I think you just need to do an alignment of the machine. That is a normal thing to do, and all of the needed adjustment points are easily accessible in the machine.

there are a number of techniques to do this. Some are shown in these videos.

https://facetingacademy.com/official-facetron-videos/


glhays wrote:
Dor wrote:

Assuming the cheater is set to zero and angle is 45. Have you already verified the issue is not the lap? I have seen Facetron users check these setting by placing the table adapter.down on the base plate on the left side of control knobs to check the mass and quill alignments and virtually setting the cheater and angle gears based off the fact the mass is square to the base. Just food for thought.
Greg


thank you both for comment.
unfortunately this is not an alignment issue.
the cheater is perfectly set to 0 in 45 degree, the table adapter sitting on the lap on index 96 and
there is no gap between the left and the right sides/
the lap is leveled.
I tired with servel laps we well ,getting the same gap between the front and the back of the table adapter.
here is a photo square to the base:
Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:04 am 
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You need to calibrate in both directions not just side to side.

OK so now the side to side rotation is square. We need to level the front to back and match it to the protractor settings also.

I use a digital angle meter to do this, but you can use your lap as long as it is flat, and square to the machine.

Raise the head up the mast just a tiny bit so that there is clearance to work.

Now set the angle to 45 degrees.

There are two screws with black plastic tops on the underside of the left side of the facet head. A big one and a small one. Fiddle with these until the the 45 degree adapter is perfectly aligned with the lap. Use these nuts to set the hard stop at that alignment. Ignore the dial indicator when doing this, but make sure the angle reading stays set to 45 degrees.

Once this is all aligned correctly we can set the dial gauge.

There are two allen wrench screws on the back of the dial indicator mount. Loosen these. You can now raise/lower the gauge until the needle is pointed straight up. Lock the gauge in place. Then loosen the gauges indicator and rotate the number wheel until zero aligns with the needle. Lock it in place, and you are done.

I wish you were close by, I would calibrate your machine for you in just a few minutes.

One of these is very useful to help align and keep everything perfect. Wixey-WR300 Type 2 Digital Angle Gauge

https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR300-Type ... 2147&psc=1


I think one of the videos I linked to in my previous post shows how to use this and how to adjust the head.


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:57 am 
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I actually used this Wixey digital gauge on my old MDR machine as a digtail readout in lue of protractor. Super glued it to the top of the quill.

Zeroing these two settings out on most machines is quite similar. Something that once learnt is something that should be done regularly.

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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:14 am 
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Runout of the quill is easy to check and confirm. All one needs is a dial indicator and stand that can be purchased at Harbor Freight very reasonably, something like $30 is what I paid years ago. Useful to align the platen as well. I use a ceramic lap which is the flattest lap I have for alignment.


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:05 am 
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1bwana1 wrote:
You need to calibrate in both directions not just side to side.

OK so now the side to side rotation is square. We need to level the front to back and match it to the protractor settings also.

I use a digital angle meter to do this, but you can use your lap as long as it is flat, and square to the machine.

Raise the head up the mast just a tiny bit so that there is clearance to work.

Now set the angle to 45 degrees.

There are two screws with black plastic tops on the underside of the left side of the facet head. A big one and a small one. Fiddle with these until the the 45 degree adapter is perfectly aligned with the lap. Use these nuts to set the hard stop at that alignment. Ignore the dial indicator when doing this, but make sure the angle reading stays set to 45 degrees.

Once this is all aligned correctly we can set the dial gauge.

There are two allen wrench screws on the back of the dial indicator mount. Loosen these. You can now raise/lower the gauge until the needle is pointed straight up. Lock the gauge in place. Then loosen the gauges indicator and rotate the number wheel until zero aligns with the needle. Lock it in place, and you are done.

I wish you were close by, I would calibrate your machine for you in just a few minutes.

One of these is very useful to help align and keep everything perfect. Wixey-WR300 Type 2 Digital Angle Gauge

https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR300-Type ... 2147&psc=1


I think one of the videos I linked to in my previous post shows how to use this and how to adjust the head.


Thanks.
not sure I understand which 2 screws you are referring to?
these are for the hardstop of the dial indicator
Image

neither of them tilt the table adapter front& back
infect they are not changing anything at all related to the machine behaviour.
the only thing they do is to lock the dial needle from moving pass a certain point on the dial indicator,
as this machine is not really a hardstop machine.


and I see these that I am not sure exactly what they are for (they are locked very tight)
maybe they connect the quill to the mast
Image

and these that are underneath (probably related to the index gear)
Image


Image

none of the official facetron videos shows how to align front&back.


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:52 am 
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You need to watch the videos titled

"G. Operating Hard Stop and Soft Stop Controls"

"8. Calibrating Your Protractor"

B. Using a digital inclinometer

The problem you are having is that your hard stop is stopping the Quil before it gets level.

Between all of these videos you should understand completely. As I said before, you don't need the Wixey Tool, you can just adjust to be aligned perfectly with your lap.



The only reason I adjust the height of the Dial gauge is because I like the Needle to be perfectly vertical when at Zero. You don't have to do this if you don't care about that. I have circled the two set screws for the dial indicator in red below. Don't touch the ones you have circled.


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Dor Image Dial Screws.jpg
Dor Image Dial Screws.jpg [ 76.65 KiB | Viewed 797 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:41 am 
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1bwana1 wrote:
You need to watch the videos titled

"G. Operating Hard Stop and Soft Stop Controls"

"8. Calibrating Your Protractor"

B. Using a digital inclinometer

The problem you are having is that your hard stop is stopping the Quil before it gets level.

Between all of these videos you should understand completely. As I said before, you don't need the Wixey Tool, you can just adjust to be aligned perfectly with your lap.



The only reason I adjust the height of the Dial gauge is because I like the Needle to be perfectly vertical when at Zero. You don't have to do this if you don't care about that. I have circled the two set screws for the dial indicator in red below. Don't touch the ones you have circled.



Steve,my friend Thank you so much! :mrgreen:
I got it fixed!
I did watched all of the facetron videos ,but none of them explaining the relation between the hard stop screws and the alignment of the back and front.
now that you said,I just removed the 2 screws completely and saw that it does effect the height of the adapter,so from there it was easy to adjust and align it.
Thanks again! I was almost about to throw this machine out of the window and order a new one
ha ha

Image
Image


Last edited by Dor on Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:43 am 
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Always happy to help out a fellow member of this site. That is why it is called a community.


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:21 pm 
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Oh good thread! Just in time for my first facetron alignment.

So Here is a related question. If one doesn't care about the needle pointing completely vertical, isn't it simpler to just make sure the 45 Adapter is flat against the lap and adjust the Dial Indicator 0 to be where the needle is pointing?


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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:48 am 
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TheL wrote:
Oh good thread! Just in time for my first facetron alignment.

So Here is a related question. If one doesn't care about the needle pointing completely vertical, isn't it simpler to just make sure the 45 Adapter is flat against the lap and adjust the Dial Indicator 0 to be where the needle is pointing?

Personal preference I would think wether your on soft or hard stop. I too personally like the needle vertical at all times.

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 Post subject: Re: facetron bent quill
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:12 am 
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TheL wrote:
Oh good thread! Just in time for my first facetron alignment.

So Here is a related question. If one doesn't care about the needle pointing completely vertical, isn't it simpler to just make sure the 45 Adapter is flat against the lap and adjust the Dial Indicator 0 to be where the needle is pointing?


Yes, you could do that, but it is so easy to put zero at the top. It literaly takes just a seconds to do. This is the way Jarvi designed the machine. I teach at a school where there are many Facetron machines, and it is best if they are all set up to a certain standard.


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