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 Post subject: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppin
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:13 am 
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HI

while watching this video.


The guy left a tiny space between the dop and the stone while dopping with wax. Does it help with adhesiveness?
Or it doesn't make any difference if we dop it while attached to stone or not.

Regards


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:48 pm 
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I've never intentionally left a gap like that unless I didn't have a temporary table to dop to and I wanted to leave some room for future adjustment to optimize the rough(I don't have a Mag-Dop).

My assumption here would be that perhaps it could be to prevent over heating the stone since the was is allowed to "slump" down to make contact with the stone. I personally don't usually get the wax hot enough to run like that either, I get it just hot enough to make a "wet edge" where the wax meets the stone.

95% of the time I dop with superglue now though. No need to worry about heat sensitive stones if you don't need to heat them op to dop them!


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:58 am 
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Which super glue do you use. Any particular brand?


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:40 am 
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I have used many different superglues (cyanoacrylate) over the years. Something that is rubber modified tends to be much less brittle, and less water sensitive. Henkel / Loctite has several rubber toughened options that work well.

For the last year or two though, I've been almost exclusively been using the "gorilla glue" branded cyanoacrylate glues. They work just as well as the loctite products, but are available practically everywhere(walmart/lowes etc.)

I use a "gel" formulation for cone dops, v dops, and making reinforcing fillets around stones on flat dops. I use the regular liquid formulations when the bond line is thin like when gluing a temporary table to a flat dop.

I also almost always use some form of accelerator(I'm impatient sometimes when I want to get started). My favorite was the Testors brand that you could get with model glue/paint, but I have not been able to find it in a couple years. I have one now I got from hobby lobby, and another I ordered on amazon. They both work "ok" but not nearly as good or as fast.

Usually, I'll bond the stone to the dop using as little glue as possible, hit it with accelerator, then in a few seconds when the glue is hard, I'll go over it and apply more glue around the joint between the stone & dop so there is a nice fillet(make sure the accelerator is evaporated first, or it may cause the entire bottle of glue to cure). One more application of accelerator and I'm cutting in less than a minute. I switched to the 2-step application process when I could no longer find the testors accelerator, because the new stuff will leave a soft center in the glue for a while that could cause the stone to come off the dop if you start cutting right away.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:32 am 
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I dop with wax, but my process is nothing like the one in the video. No gap either, I kind of 'wring' the stone on the dop, and do not use a fixture.

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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:51 pm 
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I use wax almost completely as well and never leave this space with intention. One thing I noticed in the video when applying this type of dopping in the jig, it appears as though the rough is placed on putty and then the dop pushed down onto it.
The putting becomes somewhat liquid when heat is applied in the area, so I assume the space is to negate the the movement of the rough when the dop is lowered to the rough and the video just doesn't mention it. If the dop were to make contact with the rough it is most likely going to push the rough out of the position the dopper has it set at initially. I too usually create a temp table of some sort but not always when it comes to quality rough.
Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:11 pm 
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My process is so different.

I preform the stone by hand as close to finished as I can prior to doping.

This allows me to control and color zoning, orientation, inclusions, pavilion bulge, pavilion depth, crown height, table placement, positioning on the dop, and any other issues the stone may have in order maximize yield and value. I have always believed that all of the money is made or lost during preforming. Laying the facets on becomes a job that almost any cutter in the shop can do. I am not cutting to a diagram, or using meet point method, but letting the stone dictate the cut. Most of the best, high value stone, cutting shops I have seen operate this way.

I use glue. wax, or a combination to suite what the stone, or cutting sequence requires.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:21 am 
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anyone used this glue from aliexpress.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000249 ... web201603_

its incredible cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:01 pm 
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My personal preference, Gorilla glue gel. Its nice and thick so easy to manage unlike other glues which can be thin and sloppy, and forms a hard and fast bond.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving a slight space b/w dop and stone while wax doppi
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:04 pm 
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Mike1187 wrote:
I have used many different superglues (cyanoacrylate) over the years. Something that is rubber modified tends to be much less brittle, and less water sensitive. Henkel / Loctite has several rubber toughened options that work well.

For the last year or two though, I've been almost exclusively been using the "gorilla glue" branded cyanoacrylate glues. They work just as well as the loctite products, but are available practically everywhere(walmart/lowes etc.)

I use a "gel" formulation for cone dops, v dops, and making reinforcing fillets around stones on flat dops. I use the regular liquid formulations when the bond line is thin like when gluing a temporary table to a flat dop.

I also almost always use some form of accelerator(I'm impatient sometimes when I want to get started). My favorite was the Testors brand that you could get with model glue/paint, but I have not been able to find it in a couple years. I have one now I got from hobby lobby, and another I ordered on amazon. They both work "ok" but not nearly as good or as fast.

Usually, I'll bond the stone to the dop using as little glue as possible, hit it with accelerator, then in a few seconds when the glue is hard, I'll go over it and apply more glue around the joint between the stone & dop so there is a nice fillet(make sure the accelerator is evaporated first, or it may cause the entire bottle of glue to cure). One more application of accelerator and I'm cutting in less than a minute. I switched to the 2-step application process when I could no longer find the testors accelerator, because the new stuff will leave a soft center in the glue for a while that could cause the stone to come off the dop if you start cutting right away.



Beat me to it #-o


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