It is with great sadness I'd like to announce Dr. Hanneman passed away on December 12, 2020. His legacy will live on forever!
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:01 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:51 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:35 pm
Posts: 1180
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Ouch Roger!

I've found that the heat treatment for these reds is different for each parcel. Since I'm buying by the parcel most of the time it's easy enough to take a low-end chunk of rough, saw it into sections for testing and run a few different trys. I keep the recipe on file with the parcel's inventory number.

In the "hope springs eternal" area I took a nice dark chunk of Chrome Tourm and tried all sorts of heating options. No dice.

_________________
Lisa Elser, G.G.
http://www.lisaelser.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:42 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5520
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Quote:
In the "hope springs eternal" area I took a nice dark chunk of Chrome Tourm and tried all sorts of heating options. No dice.


Do you mean "No improvement" or "Epic Fail"? I had tried heat treating tourmalines a long time ago using some of Marc Liccini's recipes. I had a few pieces improve (Greens) but most turned into grey gravel..

Gave up and sold the furnace. It was a nice Blue M with a programmable Omega controller.

_________________
www.gearloose.co


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:54 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:35 pm
Posts: 1180
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Fortunately it was "no improvement." I've still got a pretty stone, just darker than ideal. "Epic fail" looks a lot, um, shardier :-)

_________________
Lisa Elser, G.G.
http://www.lisaelser.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:55 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:35 pm
Posts: 1180
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Lap Journal is out of print on the May 2011 issue. I've posted a .pdf of my article on heat treatment on my website http://www.lisaelser.com/index.html under the In The News section.

I'm also giving a talk at the FFF6 this coming weekend on heat treatment.

Cheers,

Lisa

_________________
Lisa Elser, G.G.
http://www.lisaelser.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:07 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:14 am
Posts: 108
Fascinating article Lisa!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:44 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
Super article, Lisa. Thanks for making it available to all!

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:53 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 3694
Location: North Carolina
That article was fascinating. I can't wait to see the talk this weekend.

_________________
https://www.etsy.com/shop/angryturtle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:49 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 9:44 pm
Posts: 711
Location: Las Vegas
"Great results, Roger. Inspired by Lisa's instructions and your image I decided to have another go at it. I used my programmable oven following Lisa's instructions, ramping in increments of about 250 F. to a heat-soak temperature of about 960 F. with a 2-hour hold."

Is your oven a vacum model?like the dental porcilain ovens?or just a digital programmable burn out oven? Are you using an investment that matches the expantion rate of the stone or do you use a steel ring when investing the stones? sorry for the newbness,Iv'e never tryed heating material before. :oops:

_________________
Life is to short to worry about what others think of you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:23 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 212
I love the photos detailing the results, thanks all.

I'm always amazed that people still buy gemstones, even when the endless methods of treatment are publicized.

One would think they'd be smart enough to be buying nothing but CZ by now, I guess it's an IQ thing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:30 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:35 pm
Posts: 1180
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Icehut wrote:
I love the photos detailing the results, thanks all.

I'm always amazed that people still buy gemstones, even when the endless methods of treatment are publicized.

One would think they'd be smart enough to be buying nothing but CZ by now, I guess it's an IQ thing.


A friend of mine when asked "why should I pay money for a GEM" by people at her booth would say "well, YOU shouldn't." And she was right. If you feel that a CZ has the value you want, buy it.

If you understand the value of a gemstone, heated or not, then it's worth it to you. If you don't it's not. Fortunately there are many, many people who do value gems, and who understand the difference between heating a natural gem, and coating it, filling it, or replacing it with synthetics.

_________________
Lisa Elser, G.G.
http://www.lisaelser.com


Last edited by Lisa Elser on Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:22 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 3694
Location: North Carolina
Icehut wrote:
One would think they'd be smart enough to be buying nothing but CZ by now, I guess it's an IQ thing.

Aesthetics and tastes have nothing to do with intelligence. I personally don't think CZ is very appealing, and nothing about the process of making it gives it any symbolic or sentimental value either. Heat treatment, however, doesn't bother me at all (nor does irradiation when it's permanent and disclosed).

_________________
https://www.etsy.com/shop/angryturtle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:33 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5520
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Quote:
I personally don't think CZ is very appealing, and nothing about the process of making it gives it any symbolic or sentimental value either.

I think it is very appealing, in that it is durable, and its high IR can produce a beautiful stone. Too bad it's nearly worthless.
But I have had dreams, I mean real ones at night, about finding a vug full of tourmaline crystals, and do not ever recall dreaming about finding a furnace full of CZ.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:19 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran

Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 9:44 pm
Posts: 711
Location: Las Vegas
CZ is worthless,as for natural stones, banks have been trading them for years in place of currency.allso, most people think of gems of having an emergency value in times of economic uncertanty.when the economy is poor and the USD is low,metals and fine gems are up around the globe.of course small average gems donot gain as much value as the larger bank held investments,but they are a form of liquidity.

_________________
Life is to short to worry about what others think of you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:28 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 3694
Location: North Carolina
Gearloose wrote:
Quote:
I personally don't think CZ is very appealing, and nothing about the process of making it gives it any symbolic or sentimental value either.

I think it is very appealing, in that it is durable, and its high IR can produce a beautiful stone. Too bad it's nearly worthless.
But I have had dreams, I mean real ones at night, about finding a vug full of tourmaline crystals, and do not ever recall dreaming about finding a furnace full of CZ.

I can certainly understand someone enjoying cutting and/or wearing CZ; it just does very little to float my particular boat.
(And I definitely know what you mean about dreams like that--tourmaline, emerald, red beryl... good times).

_________________
https://www.etsy.com/shop/angryturtle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Red/Pink Tourmaline heat treatment
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:37 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 358
Scarodactyl wrote:
Icehut wrote:
One would think they'd be smart enough to be buying nothing but CZ by now, I guess it's an IQ thing.

Aesthetics and tastes have nothing to do with intelligence. I personally don't think CZ is very appealing, and nothing about the process of making it gives it any symbolic or sentimental value either. Heat treatment, however, doesn't bother me at all (nor does irradiation when it's permanent and disclosed).


a hunk of cz, just as well as all the little, tiny, iddy-biddy and over-priced chips of natural rough passed thru the dozens if not more hands before they are finally made available to the likes of faceters like me have no more value than the gravel in my aquarium, without the time and talents of a cutter. the differences to a cutter do not correlate with the origin of the material.
any treatment of a natural piece of rough, or a finished stone such as any cut emerald you can buy, regardless of whether the seller deems it to be permanent or not, should be disclosed. if it's not, then why would any intelligent consumer purchase it?
right. intelligence has very little to do with it. especially since the physical characteristics and optical properties of cz rank up there, higher than most of the stuff people on here are cutting. just my opinion, of course...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock