January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:03 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 306 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:53 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
For Quartz gem materials, I only use the Creamway lap with a liberal water drip, or the Zirconia Battstik on a Matrix lap.
My student takes it a step further and uses a Zirconia Battstik on the Creamway lap.
As a professional cutter, I can only employ what gets me high quality results as quickly as possible.

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:24 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 4:55 am
Posts: 237
Location: Vienna, Austria
Quick high quality results: thats exactly why I use the Darkside.

_________________
To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:31 am 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Quote:
Quick high quality results: thats exactly why I use the Darkside.

They are a tough act to beat, but I think the Matrix and its variant may some day. The Great Quest is to develop a lap that 100% of the users can use 100% of the time with 100% predictable results. In part, it appears the Darkside relies on the formation of graphene* film fragments as it burnishes, so user variables will affect the way it works for different people.
We have not had reports of wide variability in results from different users with the latter laps. After a brief acclimatization, the Matrix and DiaMatrix settle down to predictable performance, at least from all accounts so far.

The corner the innovator reaches is almost a trap: Low frictional heat generation and good thermal diffusivity mean a cooler stone, but it also means less power is put into the polishing process.
Higher material removal from a high complexity surface that is not thermally conductive means a hotter stone, but a faster polish.
So it's almost as if Nature despises a perfect lap.
"GOOD: FAST: EASY: (Pick any TWO)


* It's not magic. You make tiny bits of it writing with a pencil.

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:09 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
Gearloose wrote:
The corner the innovator reaches is almost a trap: Low frictional heat generation and good thermal diffusivity mean a cooler stone, but it also means less power is put into the polishing process.
Higher material removal from a high complexity surface that is not thermally conductive means a hotter stone, but a faster polish.
So it's almost as if Nature despises a perfect lap.
"GOOD: FAST: EASY: (Pick any TWO)

What you describe is not my experience.
I have found all three factors available on the Matrix and DiaMatrix. In addition to a Battstik treatment on the Matrix and a Blakstik treatment on the DiaMatrix, I use deionized water mixed to form a slurry, and lapping at slow speed, keeps the stones at room temperature.
My experience with the Darkside seems rather contrary to yours, Jon. I used mine to polish large tables on Topaz with diamond powder. To polish quickly without scratching, the surface was almost dry to actually dry, and the stone became very warm.

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:15 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I am not surprised. From what we have seen in this thread, there are times that the Darkside experience resembles Rashomon, or the tale of the Blind Men and the Elephant.
Some load the lap with slurry, some run it with a thin haze, etc.

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience - What Am I Doing Right??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:47 pm 
Offline
Established Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:12 am
Posts: 18
Location: Southern Colorado
Hi All,

I wanted to update my ongoing Darkside experience.

I am just finishing up that problem synthetic citrine that has been mentioned in my previous threads.

Gearloose suggested a couple of posts ago that I had probably just "broken in" the lap and now things should start improving.

Well, I struggled with the stone for the rest of the last day I was polishing and toward the end of the day I thought I was starting to have problems again. So, tired...I cleaned the lap and just before quitting for the day I applied a light coating of slurry onto the lap and just left it there to dry.

I didn't cut again for 2 days, due to other obligations, and this morning I sat down to work on it some more.

This is no B.S....today it's like I have a different lap on my machine. The synth citrine is acting like a real quartz today. As a matter of fact, I was thinking about a couple of guys that have posted on this subject saying things like, "I can't get a stone to scratch anymore while polishing on the Darkside".

Well, when I started up this morning, I had just done some maintenance to my facet head and had to remove the stone to calibrate it. Once I got the stone back on the quill, I started looking for the first facet by making my base adjustments and then lightly dragging the stone across the DRY lap. When I got close to flat against the lap the polish started coming up immediately...the lap wasn't moving, there was no water on it, there were NO new scratches...polishing just by moving the stone across the lap surface.

Encouraged, I spun it up to about 2 on my UT gave a couple of spritzes of water to the lap from my old diamond spray bottle and proceeded to polish a facet out in less than a minute....and then the next one, and then the next one. Remembering something that Gearloose wrote...he's running 4 to 6 speed on his machine...so I slowly started turning it up. So far to 4...no scratching.

Then, I got curious and started letting the lap get dryer as I cut...the rounding of facets reduced, edges got sharper...and still no scratching. So, I let it get even drier...and it kept working and NOT scratching. As far as slurry...I am now adding the smallest amounts of CeO...barely visible when I put it on the lap...and now I'm letting it almost dry...dry patches are visible on the lap and it just keeps on polishing...without scratching this finicky synth quartz.

I am frankly...amazed....

At this point the only thing I can think is...I've found my new quartz lap!!! It's not quite perfect, but it is definitely a step forward and beyond things like the LL and Ultra laps.

Call me a convert!!!

_________________
Hawk Phoenix
Phoenix Rising Gems, LLC
http://www.phoenixrisinggems.com


Last edited by Hawk Phoenix on Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:54 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Diamonds
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Florida, United States
I found that the Darkside seems to polish more easily when it is on the dry side.

_________________
http://adamasfacet.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:10 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I share the relief when the Lap/Cutter Team gets it together.
If you can polish that citrine, then you could polish a turd.
Well, in one sense, I suppose there is not a lot of value difference... :twisted:

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:24 pm 
Offline
Established Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:12 am
Posts: 18
Location: Southern Colorado
Gearloose wrote:
I share the relief when the Lap/Cutter Team gets it together.
If you can polish that citrine, then you could polish a turd.
Well, in one sense, I suppose there is not a lot of value difference... :twisted:



At least it doesn't smell quite as bad...and it's going to make my aunt very happy...if she only knew how we were talking....

I'd probably lose my inheritance....

_________________
Hawk Phoenix
Phoenix Rising Gems, LLC
http://www.phoenixrisinggems.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:49 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I didn't say it didn't LOOK good.
But looks can betray the struggle and straining it took to produce, I suppose.

Notice that halfway through, he said "Meow". Just as you may have cutting the citrine.

Image

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:02 pm 
Offline
Established Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:12 am
Posts: 18
Location: Southern Colorado
Gearloose wrote:
I didn't say it didn't LOOK good.
But looks can betray the struggle and straining it took to produce, I suppose.

Notice that halfway through, he said "Meow". Just as you may have cutting the citrine.

Image



Actually, compared to what I usually cut...this is a turd...looks kind turdy too. I had to fight with it too much and actually wasn't sure that I was gonna get through it. If it wasn't for the success with the Darkside, I would have dropped this one in a drawer and tried to forget about it.

But, it will be presentable...that's about it. It will probably look like a million bucks to her though...at 12 X 16 mm with a Barion cut....PC.08.045B Old Uncuttable...it is gonna flash BIG...you just don't want to look too close at the meets and some of the surfaces aren't real flat. Price I pay for learning about things.

But the next stones will be killer...guaranteed!!

_________________
Hawk Phoenix
Phoenix Rising Gems, LLC
http://www.phoenixrisinggems.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:06 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:16 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Austin, Texas
thomas.adamas wrote:
I found that the Darkside seems to polish more easily when it is on the dry side.


I found that true with both the darkside and the diamatrix. Just a spritz of water with a spray bottle now and then to keep it from being completely dry. It only takes a few seconds on most facets to polish.

_________________
"Distracted by something shiny."

Wayne Wilson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:12 pm 
Offline
Established Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:12 am
Posts: 18
Location: Southern Colorado
wfwilson wrote:
thomas.adamas wrote:
I found that the Darkside seems to polish more easily when it is on the dry side.


I found that true with both the darkside and the diamatrix. Just a spritz of water with a spray bottle now and then to keep it from being completely dry. It only takes a few seconds on most facets to polish.



And as I'm polishing the last dozen facets on this citrine...this seems to be what I'm finding too. I seem to be running the lap drier and drier. Cutting will slow way down if it gets bone dry, but a half-spritz seems to pick things right back up. I'm only putting CeO on rarely now...every couple or 3 tiers before I seem to need anything added. This just seems to be getting better as I work it.

_________________
Hawk Phoenix
Phoenix Rising Gems, LLC
http://www.phoenixrisinggems.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:08 pm 
Offline
Moderator: Lapidary Arts and Tools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 5534
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Just be careful with some stone/oxide combinations. Dryness can be sudden, and I assure you the combination of aluminum oxide and peridot can go dry at once without warning, with instant stone destruction.
Running on the edge of dryness defeats hydroviscous shear levitation, so Work is put into the stone, making for fast flat facets. But you have to watch it closely. Darkside is lubricious but not much compares to even a small amount of evaporating water for heat removal.

_________________
https://gearloose.co/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The DARKSIDE Experience
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:18 pm 
Offline
Established Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:12 am
Posts: 18
Location: Southern Colorado
Gearloose wrote:
Just be careful with some stone/oxide combinations. Dryness can be sudden, and I assure you the combination of aluminum oxide and peridot can go dry at once without warning, with instant stone destruction.
Running on the edge of dryness defeats hydroviscous shear levitation, so Work is put into the stone, making for fast flat facets. But you have to watch it closely. Darkside is lubricious but not much compares to even a small amount of evaporating water for heat removal.


Thanks for the tip!

This Darkside is a "Quartz ONLY" lap for me. For most of the harder stuff, including peridot, I'm 100K on BA5T...why mess around with anything else? If I head into spinel/corundum territory, I pull out the 100K + ceramic...yeah, scary for some, but I guess I beat myself with it long enough that I figured it out and like the results.

BATT and BA5T replaced my use of composite laps for garnet and above. I love flat...and these laps are about the best I've used next to my ceramic.

I'm just getting happy that I won't be worrying about wasting time on quartz anymore. The last dozen facets on that synth citrine, came up in 30 seconds to a minute each. I can live with that.

_________________
Hawk Phoenix
Phoenix Rising Gems, LLC
http://www.phoenixrisinggems.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 306 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock