Photoluminescence Spectra of Emeralds from Colombia, Afghanistan, and Zambia by Brian Thompson. See Research Below
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 Post subject: Supernatural Gemstones
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:12 pm 
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Greetings from the Gem State.

Not sure of the right forum to post this, but I did not see any forums with the heading "Identification of Supernatural Gemstones" :)

Some <b>charasmatic</b> believers close to were I live, are claiming Gemstones are falling from the sky, being delivered by angels, and even self-replicating.

For more information:

http://www.thegatewayintl.org/

Claim "As of September 30, we have received 39 supernatural gemstones. Please enjoy these video presentations explaining how the gemstones have come."

Hint: download video first by right clicking and "save as". Then click on file and you skip the long intro to get to the images of the stones in question by moving the slider. I have downloaded these videos in case they disappear.

To help, I have taken frame screenshots from the videos and made them available here:

http://reallybigcompany.com/papers/gems ... ideo1.html
http://reallybigcompany.com/papers/gems ... ideo2.html

Extraordinary claims required extraordinary proof. So I have launched an investigative probe on this story.

They claim they have taken the gemstones to a local mall jewelery store and they have said that they are complete clean and are unable to indentify them.

I have contacted them and offered to pay for a graduate gemologist to indentify these gems. I have not heard back yet - but will persist.

Question can anyone identify what these stones are likely to be and the possible source. On the 7th image in this page:

http://reallybigcompany.com/papers/gems ... ideo1.html

There is a unusual cut with may point to the origin.

Thanks for you help and I will post my results here.
Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:17 pm 
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I'm afraid that it's impossible to positively identify a gemstone from a photo.

Facetted gemstones don't just fall from the sky, unless the DHL or Postal plane who was delivering some JTV parcels didn't close their cargo doors properly.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:22 pm 
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There is nothing I can see particularly unusual about the shape of the stones in the video stills. I don't have much skill as a faceter, but I can make something of those shapes without much trouble. (Unless there is something I'm missing from the stills.)

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 Post subject: Re: Supernatural Gemstones
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:06 pm 
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iceage wrote:


They claim they have taken the gemstones to a local mall jewelery store....



This test has proven to be remarkably ineffective both for mundane gemstones and their various substitutes.

Neil

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:00 pm 
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africanuck wrote:
I'm afraid that it's impossible to positively identify a gemstone from a photo.

No I wasn't expecting a positive id, especially from some grainy images. I would guess that a positive id from the images provided would be a miracle!

I am more inquiring along the lines of what could be some possible suspects. I am writing an investigative report on this supernatural event.

Here is what I know:
  • Apparently no loop visible inclusions.
  • Come in a variety of colors white, pink, lavender and red.
  • Fairly translucent.
  • Low cost and large size. They are now up to 39 delivered stones. I would assume that the (alleged confidence) man here is not going to spend to much to pull this off.
  • The stones appear to be uniform in size I am guessing 15mm - 20mm
  • The stones have a similiar cut.

I have searched ebay and found round brilliant zircon from China that comes close to fitting the above points. They come in 25 to 100 ct sizes and in the colors mentioned. Not sure what the final bid price is but they appear to be low cost. They are also described as near clear from inclusions.

As stated before I am pressing for them to get a gemologist involved (I have offered to pay) but they appear to be resisting.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:05 pm 
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I'd put my bet on them being Cubic Zirconia.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:15 pm 
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Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. :)

It's entirely possible that the guy purporting the supernatural origin of the stones truly believes it. I wouldn't put it past someone to be having "a spot of fun" and chucking these things at his house from a tall tree at night or something.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:17 pm 
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My first thought was CZ too, since the various coloured stones all seem to have a lot of brilliance in the photos. Kind of reminds me of what you see in the Souks in Egypt, although they swear it's aquamarine, morganite or even sapphire. If you had a way to measure them accurately, you could plug in the details HERE and it would give you a list of what they could be.

As far as I know, the only extraterrestrial gem is peridot, which can occur in meteorites. I've read there might be diamonds in space too, although they never seem to fall anywhere near my house. Unfortunately, none of these arrive already facetted.

Exactly how are these stones "arriving" into the hands of these charasmatic people? They find them in their garden in the morning, two in the drawer where one was left, next to their coffee cup in the morning?

I also have to ask, having spent a fair number of years in various countries where the "supernatural" was considered just a part of life (and often used to manipulate), where do these people live (or where are they from)?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:25 pm 
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africanuck wrote:

As far as I know, the only extraterrestrial gem is peridot, which can occur in meteorites.


Let's not forget our pal moissanite:

http://www.fromthesky.com/about_moissanite.htm

But moissanite doesn't come in the rainbow of colors that these people are claiming to be receiving. :roll:


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 Post subject: Angelic Visitation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:53 pm 
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africanuck wrote:
Exactly how are these stones "arriving" into the hands of these charasmatic people? They find them in their garden in the morning, two in the drawer where one was left, next to their coffee cup in the morning?

I also have to ask, having spent a fair number of years in various countries where the "supernatural" was considered just a part of life (and often used to manipulate), where do these people live (or where are they from)?

This drama is occuring in Coeur d'Alene Idaho, the nearest large city is Spokane Washington.

In the first video, the fellow claims an angelic visitation. An angel in her glory handed him a stone after he was returning home from work one day. They are claiming 39 stones received, in a variety of ways such as appearing spontaneously and dropping into the yard.

I have another technical question. I have exchanged one email with the church and got this:

Gateway Fellowship wrote:
we have had the gems tested though not acid tested. We did not feel like we were supposed to destroy the gems. The result was that they are to dense for their size. They have no bubbles like cubic zirconium or unfinished aluminum. They also have no flaws that a normal diamond would have. They really don't know what they are.


The are claiming that the only test left is mass spectroscopy where part of one of the gems would have to be dissolved in acid. Has anyone evey heard of such a test for a stone?

I am still inquiring for the gemologist report.

In the meantime I have found similar stones from the video on Ebay: EBay Round Zircon


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:18 am 
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Quote:
Gateway Fellowship wrote:
we have had the gems tested though not acid tested. We did not feel like we were supposed to destroy the gems. The result was that they are to dense for their size. They have no bubbles like cubic zirconium or unfinished aluminum. They also have no flaws that a normal diamond would have. They really don't know what they are.


None of this really makes much sense.
They had them tested by whom?
What is an acid test? Gemological tests do not harm the gems. I've never heard of an acid test (with the exception of The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, by Tom Wolfe)
What is their Specific Gravity? What could possibly be too dense for its size?
Cubic Zircomia doesn't contain "bubbles".
I'm sure if the stones were given to a GEMOLOGIST with a lab they could be positively identified without a problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:17 am 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
I'm sure if the stones were given to a GEMOLOGIST with a lab they could be positively identified without a problem.


Hence their hesitancy to comply, I would imagine.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:19 am 
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From the video found on the Gateway Fellowship website.

Quote:
The mall jeweller they took the stones to said that it can't be cubic zirconia because when you look at it through a loupe, there is no doubling of the facets.


Said mall jeweller was apparently recommended by God, via a dream that one of the church members had.

Then they talk about how in order to find out what it really is, they would need to do destructive testing and the couple who are finding these things are waiting for a sign from God that it's ok.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:16 am 
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Actually I have several of these stones, they test as usual but only magnification reveals the real power of the gems.
With a 10x loupe you will see the heart of faith (hard to explain) for the true believer. A non-believer or someone who merely thinks he/she believes will not see that. It is the ultimate test.

I've shown my stones to several others and mostly they see the face of Freddy Heineken or even McDonald, but the true believers all saw what I saw.

As these stones are very precious to me I would never part from them, unless you are a true believer and the price is right.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:28 am 
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Just watched the video. Oh how I love a good re-enactment! It's got everything...... gemstones, gold dust, angels and tears.

O.K., mall jeweler says it can't be CZ because you can't see any doubling of facets with the loupe. Uh, CZ is SR. Is the mall jeweler confusing CZ with Zircon?

Towards the end of the video when the camera person is holding the stone in her hand and turns it over, looks like some orange pavillion flash possibly. My vote is CZ. Would love to have the opportunity to test one of these myself. Seems my childlike faith is a bit cynical.


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