January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:53 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternatives
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:25 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:12 am
Posts: 12
Are people with valuable natural sapphires/emeralds worried who bought them (at least partly) as an investment worried about the possibility that the market might stop caring about whether a stone is natural or synthetic?
In that case prices of natural stones would plummet.
Some synthetics are already hard to distinguish using just a 10x triplet, why should consumers keep paying 100 times more for fine natural stones?

To me, a natural stone is much more attractive since I know it has taken an extremely long time to grow and that the chances of it coming out of high quality were tiny. But I guess that if one only cares about appearance those considerations are irrelevant!


This is more of a theoretical question since I cannot afford expensive natural gemstones anyway :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:48 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 4015
Location: North Carolina
Synthetics have been around for centuries and have not had that kind of effect on the market for the most part. I think most people feel that if it were going to happen it would have happened by now.

_________________
Rough and cut classic and exotic synthetic gems:https://store.turtleshoard.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:20 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 9:42 pm
Posts: 1033
In general I think buying stones for an investment is a bad idea. Unless you have a store that gives you an outlet for selling the stones, and you do this regularly, gemstones should be bought for their enjoyment, not for their value (and as cheaply as possible :-D ).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:54 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:12 am
Posts: 12
dchallener wrote:
In general I think buying stones for an investment is a bad idea. Unless you have a store that gives you an outlet for selling the stones, and you do this regularly, gemstones should be bought for their enjoyment, not for their value (and as cheaply as possible :-D ).

But if you happen to enjoy expensive gemstones, it can get pretty costly very fast!
I.e. I would feel quite comfortable spending 2000 dollars on a nice 1ct ruby if I know that in 20 years I would be able to resell it for a similar price in case I should need the money, it would be much harder to justify spending that money if there were a significant chance that it's resale value would be effectively 0 due to advancements in the technology to create realistic synthetics :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:51 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:20 am
Posts: 2756
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Certain gems do increase in value for various reasons, even some synthetics. Others can lose value, generally as the result of new discoveries that flood the market. But as mentioned above, buying stones at the right price and being able to re-market them is the key.

That function is usually filled by active and knowledgeable gem dealers who can do both, as opposed to "investors" who buy at retail and expect to sell back to dealers who buy at source prices.

However I wish I'd bought some Kashan flux-grown ruby rough when it was available. It's an example of a synthetic that's shown considerable appreciation in value, mainly for the collector market.

_________________
Rick Martin

www.artcutgems.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:03 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:29 am
Posts: 142
Stephen Challener wrote:
Synthetics have been around for centuries and have not had that kind of effect on the market for the most part.


Stephen, Synthetic Corundums have only been around 140/120 years:

By 1877, chemist Edmond Frémy had devised an effective method for commercial ruby manufacture by using molten baths of alumina, yielding the first gemstone-quality synthetic stones. The Parisian chemist Auguste Verneuil collaborated with Fremy on developing the method, but soon went on to independently develop the flame fusion process, which would eventually come to bear his name.

One of Verneuil's sources of inspiration for developing his own method was the appearance of synthetic rubies sold by an unknown Genevan merchant in 1880. These "Geneva rubies" were dismissed as artificial at the time, but are now believed to be the first rubies produced by flame fusion, predating Verneuil's work on the process by 20 years. After examining the "Geneva rubies", Verneuil came to the conclusion that it was possible to recrystallise finely ground aluminium oxide into a large gemstone. This realisation, along with the availability of the recently developed oxyhydrogen torch and growing demand for synthetic rubies, led him to design the Verneuil furnace, where finely ground purified alumina and chromium oxide were melted by a flame of at least 2,000 °C (3,630 °F), and recrystallised on a support below the flame, creating a large crystal. He announced his work in 1902, publishing details outlining the process in 1904.

By 1910, Verneuil's laboratory had expanded into a 30-furnace production facility, with annual gemstone production by the Verneuil process having reached 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) in 1907.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:33 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 4015
Location: North Carolina
Tom Herman wrote:
Stephen Challener wrote:
Synthetics have been around for centuries and have not had that kind of effect on the market for the most part.


Stephen, Synthetic Corundums have only been around 140/120 years:

Yes, you're quite correct! I typed carelessly there.

_________________
Rough and cut classic and exotic synthetic gems:https://store.turtleshoard.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:25 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
As David alluded to earlier, an investment presumes one has a strategy in place to cash in on potential returns.
Unless one is in the jewelry/gem business, the options to cash out at a profit are very limited. The retail replacement value on a gem is profoundly different from a fair market or liquidation value.

Personally, when I want to invest, I call Charles Schwab.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:03 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:22 am
Posts: 1
Tom Herman wrote:
Stephen Challener wrote:
Synthetics have been around for centuries and have not had that kind of effect on the market for the most part.


Stephen, Synthetic Corundums have only been around 140/120 years:

By 1877, chemist Edmond Frémy had devised an effective method for commercial ruby manufacture by using molten baths of alumina, yielding the first gemstone-quality synthetic stones. The Parisian chemist Auguste Verneuil collaborated with Fremy on developing the method, but soon went on to independently develop the flame fusion process, which would eventually come to bear his name.


I recently published a book on 'The History of Synthetic Ruby' which shows that the first person to produce a synthetic corundum was Antoine Lavoisier in 1782 (though he didn't recognise his achievement; perhaps he would have done if he hadn't met Madame Guillotine). He also fused small natural rubies together (whether the result of this is a natural or synthetic ruby is debateable). So 'around for centuries' is indeed the case.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:03 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 4015
Location: North Carolina
They've been on thr market in the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries. That's three centuries :lol:

_________________
Rough and cut classic and exotic synthetic gems:https://store.turtleshoard.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:38 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 1542
As others have pointed out, quality synthetics have been around for a long time without lowering the value of natural stones. I don't see any reason that this is likely to change.

Of course there is always the risk of a new disruptive technology. This would include new synthetics that are entirely undetectable from natural stones using traditional methods. I view this as extremely unlikely. Testing technology has advanced to the point that we can know the exact chemistry qualitative, and quantitative in both the stone and its inclusions. The sample libraries have grown to the point that we can compare these results in natural stones to arrive at origin with reasonable certainty. This holds true of labs as well.

There is the possibility that a lab producing synthetics that are undetectable using traditional methods remans unknown for aa period of time. But eventually it always gets out, and ID of the lab becomes possible.

The big issue is the cost of finding out, not whether it can be done.

In any case There are way more pressing issues in our World to worry about.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:22 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 9:42 pm
Posts: 1033
All that said, I would not invest in diamonds right now. There is a growing contingent of jewelers that are trying to convince customers that a lab diamond is more ethical than a earth mined diamond. I see them in the malls.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Investment in colored gemstones and syntetic alternative
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:26 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
And after reading the update of the Kimberly Process in the article from IGR, diamonds are making me a little queasy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock