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 Post subject: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:20 pm 
Hello all,
I'm a newbie in this field.Currently have retail experience and theoratical knowledge.I want to get into rough diamond business.

I will be in bangkok whole february for some AIGS trainings and meanwhile managed to get 5 different african sellers to come to bangkok to show their goods to me.

My plan is to check the authenticity of the stones and make sure that they are indeed rough diamonds.I will NOT buy,but merely check the authenticity of the sellers and their goods for the future purchases(after i get necessary rough trainings).Also it will be an experience for me as well.

What kind of tools that you think i will need for authentication? I read there are many topazes in the market(some cut like a rough diamond,have trigons etc).
So far i just got 10x/20x loupe and diamond selector(the one works with heat).

I'm also attaching a picture of goods offered.I have doubts about some octahedrons,although some others(makeables) looks genuine to me.

I would be happy to hear advices from experts.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:01 pm 
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Buy a Gemmoraman or EXA Natural Diamond Detector:
http://www.gemmoraman.com/Products.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:08 pm 
thanks barbara.
Dont have 6700 Euros to spend at the moment.

I was more interested in more *affordable* ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:14 pm 
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You could get a thermal diamond tester.

But, I don't get it. If you are dealing in thousands of dollars worth of diamonds, why would you skimp on identification.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:39 pm 
I'm not skimping on anything. At the moment,i dont have thousands of euros to spend on a machine. That doesnt mean i wont have it in near future.

Like i wrote before,i will NOT buy anything from those sellers and i'm NOT dealing in anything. I just wanted to be sure what they sell is genuine,and not topaz In case i deal with them near future for genuine transactions.

Just wanted to know if there are any affordable ways(some basic tools,etc) to make sure diamonds are genuine instead of spending 6700 euros right away.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:29 am 
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I would think surface luster alone would differentiate them with some experience. A thermal tester should work fine for basic differentiation, as long as they aren't chilled or something. There are plenty of anecdotal reports about phenakite or topaz or whatever testing positive, but if a thermal tester is working correctly it really shouldn't be an issue with those stones. I am not sure how many experienced dealers would be drawn in by carved topaz and things like that, or if this is more an issue with the inexperienced who might let a bit of excitement about potential profits drown out their skepticism. The carving can certainly be quite intricate. You could also try a polariscope, though that won't help with singly refractive imitations.
If you want to get into this seriously, though, proper instrumentation is key.

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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:44 pm 
Thanks Stephen,

I'm saving money for trainings and instruments at the moment. This opportunity is right there,so i thought it would be great experience checking those sellers for authenticity. In case i will need them later.

I decided to use a thermal diamond tester and synthetic corundum(hardness test). At least hardness test will make me sure that its not a topaz which is the most common fake at the moment based on what i read.

Any other advice is welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:37 pm 
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I agree with Stephen. When you have watched a couple of phenakite and/or topaz carved octahedrons and compare them with genuine diamonds, the surface luminosity is so different that it should not fool you for long.
A proper UV lighting can help too and is rather cheap but will not work out all cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:37 pm 
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If one were to put enough pressure attempting a hardness test on the tetrahedral plane (which is its weakest point in a diamond) you could cleave it.

I wouldn't think most diamond merchants would allow you to do hardness tests on their parcels, would they?


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:09 am 
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myrica wrote:
I'm not skimping on anything. At the moment,i dont have thousands of euros to spend on a machine.


You understand that a thermal diamond tester is a couple of hundred dollars, not thousands of Euro don't you?

The rough and cut diamond market is one of the most efficient markets I know of. the companies that buy rough are extremely well financed and always looking for even a small discount on rough. The idea that someone with little to no knowledge, poorly capitalized, and buying rough in a mature market full of knowledgeable buyers, located thousands of miles from the source like Bangkok, is going to get a bargain, is wishful thinking. Just what do you believe you offer the seller that an experienced cash buyer who knows the stones, manufacturing, and resale market does not?

Just a word to the wise. Be cautious, not greedy or you will likely get taken.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:34 am 
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You hit the nail on the head, 1bwana1!


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:48 pm 
Thanks for the feedback
I think no one read what i wrote though.
I will NOT BUY anything. Therefore no one is taking advantage of me.
Let me write again,i will NOT BUY anything. I'm not that stupid to buy something that i dont know about without proper training.
I will only CHECK the authenticity of the diamonds offered for the future AFTER i get proper trainings and cash.

I found a thermal tester for 10 dollars(not moissanite tester) and i will attempt to scratch the diamond with corundum,on a clear surface. Any *genuine* merchant would allow it since topaz is lower than corundum. If they dont,that means its topaz.

I will be in bangkok for other trainings,so why not checking some stones meanwhile? I suppose real life practice never hurt.

Im aware of my *little to no knowledge* part very well. Hence the reason why im planning rough evaluation courses.
And there are small rough diamond tenders in South africa/dubai for small buyers. I also know quite a few manufacturers who does effective business with small purchases.

Thanks,


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:59 pm 
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I don't think your venture will go well, myrica. You have to have proper test instrumentation and have the means to purchase those items. A $10 diamond tester will likely NOT provide accurate results.
You want rough diamond dealers to spend their time letting you handle their goods without your wanting to buy any?
That sounds like exploitation.
That will give you a very negative reputation very quickly.
I suggest you look for another business venture.

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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:19 pm 
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I will NOT BUY anything. Therefore no one is taking advantage of me.

But, are you taking advantage of their time, or just wasting it entirely.

Perhaps, if this is really what you are interested in, you should try to get a job with a company specializing in rough diamonds. You would have to work your way up because as of right now, you have no experience, just interest*.....

*Your interest seems to revolve around "getting rich quick" schemes with minimal personal investment.

Quote:
Any *genuine* merchant would allow it since topaz is lower than corundum. If they dont,that means its topaz.


Oh, what a silly, silly person you appear to be. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity of Rough Diamonds
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:00 am 
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"managed to get 5 different african sellers to come to bangkok to show their goods to me"

a long way to travel just for a show n tell.
That would piss me right off if one of my clients treated me such.

I hope the sellers know youre not interested in buying. If not, you should certainly do them the courtesy of informing them.


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