Novembr 16-18—COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA: Annual show; The Columbia, SC Gem and Mineral Society; Fri. 10-6, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-5
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:12 am 
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Just thought I'd bring up a couple of things as I've been putting my Darkside to work with a vengance lately. Although essentially an AlOx polishing lap I now have a thin band of 50k diamond around the outside that allows me to tidy things up that need it more easily than the oxide will.

The first thing I noticed that hasn't been mentioned so far is the 'black stuff'. I seem to either be getting a lot or it's so black it looks like a lot (Anyone who has managed to get a pinhead amount of offset printing ink on themselves knows the effect).

Although the black stuff easily wipes off it doesn't seem to interfere with anything. I find this particularly curious as the thing that is most often and most easily interefered with is that delightful green sponge rock called emerald. The highly intelligent cutters with massive IQs and even more massive survival instincts have no idea what I'm talking about, which is probably why it hasn't been mentioned by anyone.

The not so bright who self inflict and the very dim that obey customers demands know that emeralds will pick up polishing lap material which is impact deposited into every tiny crack, crevice, nook and cranny. Fixes such as beeswax, glues, resins and oils are all mostly ineffective at keeping lap material out of the holes they just seem to prevent deep penetration.

Tin is by far the worst offender but bright little metal particles are also left in the emeralds surface when using Typemetal, Zinc or BATTs. Various plastics and carbonate laps including the mylar film and Marsh's Lightning Lap will embed white plastic stuff that is less obvious but still difficult to remove

With the 2 emeralds I have polished so far with the Darkside I had no sign of any lap material in the cracks, neither did I have oxide in the crannies, or if I did it was removed by the alcohol during the stone cleaning wax dissolving process. Just keeps getting better.

Tony.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Today, when polishing a table, I decided to add a little more oxide to my Darkside.

Previously, I thought my 1/2 pound of CeO would last ten years. Now, I've decided to change my will and leave what's left to the local lapidary club.

(BTW, I'm glad I started this thread, even if it was early in the game.)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:20 pm 
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BTW, exactly what form of Jet Dry do people use? I did a google search and came up with this page http://www.finishdishwashing.com/finish ... itives.php

It seems that there are multiple forms of Jet Dry.

Also how much do people use and in what ways?

I admit to still not being entirely sure that it would make a big difference. I heard that I should use dish soap in my drip tank and never saw a big difference so I gave that up and I associate the two ideas a little. But then maybe I am missing something here.

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 Post subject: Jet Dry
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:04 pm 
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Happy New Year, John and all --
I'm using the Jet-Dry rinse agent with shine boost -- Sure wish I could get my hands on tourmaline that is the same color for the same price ----- Looks like liquid Pariaba (or however that toumaline from everywhere that has copper in it is spelled)

I'm using 14 or so drops in my facetron tank that is about a quart and a half, I think. The amount is what I can generally draw up with the eyedropper that's on the small jar I store the stuff in. It's also darn good for getting gunked on swarf off when you use it almost full strength -- let it sit on a wet lap for a few minutes before you wash it off using a stiff brush and some running water.

Keith


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:13 pm 
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Surfactants/Wetting agents, etc.

Rather than have people running around looking for Tween 20, Photo-Flo, etc, here is something you can get ANYWHERE.

Johnson & Johnson Baby Shampoo

5-10 CC/Liter should be fine.


The stuff contains several very effective surfactants and obviously they are FDA FD&C approved. So you won't die if you use it. :lol:

DETAILS:

Water,

PEG-80 Sorbitan Laurate, This is a detergent-like chemical that
functions as a surfactant. Basically that means that it serves as a
"wetting agent" to help reduce surface tension in the water and
promote smooth spreading of the shampoo

Cocamidopropyl Betaine,: Another surfactant, or wetting agent.

Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, Yet another surfactant

Glycerin,

Lauroamphoglycinate, An "amphoteric" surfactant.


PEG-150 Distearate, Surfactant, a potent one.

Sodium Laureth-13 Carboxylate, Emulsifying surfactant

Fragrance,

Polyquaternium-10,
Tetrasodium EDTA,
Quaternium-15,
(Chelators and sequesters)

Citric Acid, (Buffer)

D&C Yellow #10, D&C
Orange #4

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:50 pm 
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Gearloose wrote:
Surfactants/Wetting agents, etc.

Rather than have people running around looking for Tween 20, Photo-Flo, etc, here is something you can get ANYWHERE.

Johnson & Johnson Baby Shampoo

5-10 CC/Liter should be fine.


The stuff contains several very effective surfactants and obviously they are FDA FD&C approved. So you won't die if you use it. :lol:


Are you sure? That ingredients list sounds worse than WD-40 :-) People actually dunk babies in it?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:03 pm 
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johnddyer wrote:
BTW, exactly what form of Jet Dry do people use? I did a google search and came up with this page http://www.finishdishwashing.com/finish ... itives.php

It seems that there are multiple forms of Jet Dry.


I use the blue stuff that you can get at any grocery store.

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Also how much do people use and in what ways?


Well, the short answer is "use enough". I'm not trying to be funny, but that's really the answer. I suspect it depends on the quality of your water. We have really hard water here, so 10 drops probably isn't enough...it may be more than enough elsewhere. Here's a way to figure out if you're using enough.

Start your drip on a dry cutting lap. Run a finger from spindle to edge to evenly wet the surface, let it run a few seconds, then turn off the machine. When the lap stops, you'll probably see that there are areas on the lap that stay wet, and areas that dry off somewhat (as in bead up due to surface tension). This means you don't have wet enough water. Add the surfactant of your choice and repeat the test until you get a completely wet lap when you turn it off. Now your water is wet enough to carry off the nasty stuff that settles into your cutting laps.

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I admit to still not being entirely sure that it would make a big difference. I heard that I should use dish soap in my drip tank and never saw a big difference so I gave that up and I associate the two ideas a little. But then maybe I am missing something here.


I had the same experience the first time I tried it. I had not used enough detergent to get the effect described above. I had only used about 3 drops of detergent. Someone in the NMFG showed me the above test (with some RV antifreeze). Now I just squirt in Jet-Dry or detergent until I get the desired effect. After a couple of sessions, it cleaned up a Crystalite 600 so well that it cut like new. I had previously cut a couple of big amethysts on it, and it was gunked up so badly I thought it was worn out. If nothing else, it keeps my cutting laps shiny and clean.

This may be one of those few times that "more is better". The worst thing that might happen would be soap suds.
:wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:42 pm 
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Someone in the NMFG showed me the above test (with some RV antifreeze). Now I just squirt in Jet-Dry or detergent until I get the desired effect. After a couple of sessions, it cleaned up a Crystalite 600 so well that it cut like new.


Note that the baby shampoo contains EDTA and other chelators that were put there specifically to address hard water issues. This can only help a quartz fouled lap, especially if people use hard water in the drip tank. (Calcium silicate will form on the lap.) Many commercial detergents would use it as well for the same reasons, but most of these are buffered alkaline.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:40 am 
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Are you sure? That ingredients list sounds worse than WD-40 . People actually dunk babies in it?


At least it's not Baby OIL.
They must squeeze them or something? Image

Then there is the popular P&G dishwashing detergent in the UK. "Fairy Liquid™". I guess they lure them with a bowl of milk on the doorstep and do Awful Things.

Ingredients lists are always morbid and freak people out.
The ingredients list for a many benign items would.

Human Body: Radioisotopes including C14 and K40. Better have yourself buried at Hanford.

2-day Old Spinach: n-Nitrosamines, potent carcinogens.

Grilled steak: Dibenzopyrenes. Carcinogens.

And on and on.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:25 am 
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hi guys:

Not wanting to sound like an idiot .. but how do you get the swarf off the machine once it runs off the edge of the lap :?:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Gearloose wrote:
Ingredients lists are always morbid and freak people out.
The ingredients list for a many benign items would.


Yep. I used to amuse myself by looking up common stuff in the Merck Index. Practically every entry ended with "convulsions and death." IIRC the lethal dose of water is 14 liters.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:09 pm 
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wolf wrote:
hi guys:

Not wanting to sound like an idiot .. but how do you get the swarf off the machine once it runs off the edge of the lap :?:

Water drip, or oil? Oil (WD-40) is a lot less messy for me, unless I get too much on the lap. I've found Windex or Formula 409 followed by a paper towel works pretty well for either. It may depend on what finish is used on your machine.

I only use water with course grits, and hate it because I end up with swarf all over the machine. If I only have a relatively small amount of rough to remove I use WD-40 on 325 BATT, even though it has to be cleaned off the lap quite often.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Just a note that I tried Baby Shampoo in the drip tank this morning, cutting a spodumene. It worked very well.

And both my hands and the shop smell dainty and fresh.

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 Post subject: re: Darkside Lap
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Gearloose wrote:
Just a note that I tried Baby Shampoo in the drip tank this morning, cutting a spodumene. It worked very well.

And both my hands and the shop smell dainty and fresh.

:smt105 :smt105

I can't get off the floor.... haven't laughed this hard for years...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:31 pm 
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Quote:
Just a note that I tried Baby Shampoo in the drip tank this morning, cutting a spodumene. It worked very well.

And both my hands and the shop smell dainty and fresh.




Quote:
I can't get off the floor.... haven't laughed this hard for years...


It could have been worse. It could have been some musk-based bath oil.
Then I would have been rubbing my antlers against the door casings in full rut.

I have to stop posting and get back to work but it was drunk out last night, and I cannot face thoss machines and the cold shop.

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